AIBU to think that WASPI women should not be entitled to compensation?

[mugglewump]

They've been on the news again marching for compensation in a climate where the government is having to make very difficult decisions about funding to stop our debt ever increasing.

I think there are far more deserving cases for goverment money than women who didn't act on information at the time and sort their pensions out or keep working (p/t or f/t) until retirement age.

Moreover, the people paying this compensation are those who will be working until they are 67 to 70 to claim a state pension. Surely, it's a bit ick to expect them to bail out women who retired at 60?

It would be paid for by mostly younger workers who'll not get the state pension at such an early age as the most affected waspi women.

The waspi women paid the pensions of the people who came before them and who retired earlier, so I wouldn't expect them to find this a convincing argument. On the face of it they have a reasonable expectation that subsequent generations will do the same for them. There may be good reasons not to compensate them but this isn't one of them.

because they should have have taken personal responsibility for checking their own pensions and because it was so widely advertised that most people were aware.

It wasn' that straightforward. One of the driving factors in moving away from the old pension scheme was its complexity. In many cases it was virtually impossible to calculate your entitlement unless you were a pension specialist. A side effect of this was that the reporting at the time oversimplified the changes, because to have done otherwise would have made the reports incomprehensible to the general public. To get a reliable forecast you had to either have a very simple history (which the waspi women generally didn't have because of the changes imposed on them) or to ask the government to send you one, which sometimes took a very long time.

To give you an example, I reached retirement age a year before the new state pension was introduced. The papers were full of 'anyone retiring after xxx will get the new pension'. I wanted to know whether I would qualify for the new pension if I deferred retiring for a year. Despite extensive research I couldn't get a definitive answer until in exasperation I wrote to my MP. He referred it to the pensions minister. The answer was no. If I had relied on the extensive publicity and newspaper reports, as people are saying the waspi women should have done, I would gave been totally misled.

There seems to be quite a few people unhappy that the WASPIs haven’t shuffled off their mortal coils yet!

They are not people who were not informed.

They are people who didn't want to know & in many cases buried their heads in the sand.

They also include women who in many cases hadn't worked much at all, and this is why they are outraged that the solution was to continue working to fund the wait for state pension. They did not want to work.

I agree.
I am a WASPI and knew about this decades ago.
It disgusts me these women are making out they were not told.
It was first announced as a plan in 1995 when we/ they were 40-ish.

The whole thing is a scam and the women are not accepting their own ignorance and lack of engagement with the facts. It was all over the media, they could access their own state pension forecasts well in advance, but they didn't bother.

The Ombudsman took a long time looking into the complex ins and outs of this, and found that there was significant wrong doing, and the WASPI women were due compensation. Before the election the Labour Party publicly promised to support the women, then refused to as soon as they got into power.

The ombudsman found that between 1995 and 2004 information about the change was widespread and that the government had done as much as was possible to provide information.

If your Mum is 71 now she reached state pension age at 66.

She’s not 71 yet - used it for ease in my post. She was definitely 67 when she got her pension & continues to work weekends to support herself.

I think you are mistaken. I'm 67 and claimed mine when I was 66.

@TwentyKittens
"The ombudsman found that between 1995 and 2004 information about the change was widespread and that the government had done as much as was possible to provide information."
But it was the change in 2011, that 'sped up' the change with only 5 years notice.
Yes, it affected me, but I was notified (5 years notice, I would have to work longer, which MPs considered too little time for themselves).
I also asked several times for a pension forcast. Which is often a waste of time, as the rules kept changing.
So, I think morally the women are right, but as the country is totally bankrupt, there's not a hope in getting any compensation, anyway. So as one of those affected, I have not joined in with any campaign.

It’s completely misunderstood the situation. You’re ignorance of the subject is shocking

It’s not just about old women who are too lazy to work

I can’t even be bothered. Get up to go look it up. Stop embarrassing yourself

You seem to be confusing things. No one has suggested that all the WASPI women should have their pensions stripped from them. They are being paid by younger workers currently. The WASPI women want additional 'compensation', again, paid for by younger. The younger generations are, overall, poorer than the over 65s and, as I said, many will not receive any state pension and will struggle a great deal in retirement/be working until they are incapable. The economy has visibly been deteriorating since at least the GFC, wages have been stagnant, people are struggling to afford housing and other essentials despite full time jobs. The fact that the WASPIs are asking for special compensation shows just how out of touch and selfish they are.
I don't buy this 'it was complicated' argument at all, It was all over the news on a regular basis. I'm much younger but was aware of it.

I don't buy this 'it was complicated' argument at all, It was all over the news on a regular basis. I'm much younger but was aware of it.

I agree.

I am their age and knew decades ago about the rise in pension age for women.
I'm sure I also had letters to that effect- and it's so long ago I don't have them because I took the changes on board and knew it would happen.

I was a teenager when the changes were announced and I was aware of them.
I was working from 16, I also paid for my further education through a loan which is currently gaining interest and is taken from my salary each month, my further education was far from free.
My free childcare cost me £1,200 per month - with the free hours it was far from free
The pension age has changed within my working life from 65 to 67 shall I complain too? Especially as by the time I reach retirement age it will likely be closer to 70 if avaliable to me at all.

The waspi women paid the pensions of the people who came before them and who retired earlier, so I wouldn't expect them to find this a convincing argument.

Unfortunately what most waspi women paid in is nowhere near enough to earn what they subsequently expected to take out!

The people whose pensions they "paid" died much earlier in life. They were a much smaller cohort to begin with, & might have received a pension from 60/65 but might only have lived to 70 or so. The Waspi women had a much longer life expectancy but still expected to retire at 60.

Then you have a chunk of people who hadn't really worked (or paid in!) at all but expected to receive pension credit at retirement age & were disappointed when this was delayed.

There's a difference between knowing it was going to happen, and understanding how you were going to be affected.

This is how the old state pension is made up. I'm surprised anyone can think that's not complicated and I don't think it's reasonable to expect the average woman to have been able to work out her entitlement by herself.

The "old" UK State Pension applies to men born before 6 April 1951 and women born before 6 April 1953. It consists of two primary components: the Basic State Pension, which provides a flat-rate amount based on your National Insurance record, and the Additional State Pension (often called SERPS or S2P), which is an earnings-related top-up. www.gov.uk +2

1. Basic State Pension

How it works: A flat-rate weekly payment paid to those who reached State Pension age before 6 April 2016. The Full Rate: The full basic state pension rate is

per week.
Qualifying Years: You need 30 qualifying years of National Insurance (NI) contributions or credits to receive the full amount. If you have fewer than 30 years, you are paid a proportion (e.g., 15 qualifying years gives you

th of the full rate). www.ageuk.org.uk +4

1. Additional State Pension

How it works: An extra amount built up on top of the Basic State Pension between 1978 and 2016. It is specifically designed to act as an earnings-related "top-up". The Schemes: This component evolved over the years and is commonly associated with two historical schemes: SERPS (State Earnings Related Pension Scheme): Active from 1978 to 2002. Your entitlement depends on your earnings between lower and upper earnings limits and the National Insurance you paid on them. S2P (State Second Pension): Active from 2002 to 2016. S2P broadened the scope of the additional pension to also boost benefits for lower earners, carers, and people with long-term illnesses. commonslibrary.parliament.uk +6

1. Additional Elements & Adjustments

Graduated Retirement Benefit (GRB): A smaller, historical earnings-related addition to your state pension based on NI contributions made between 1961 and 1975. Category D Pension: A non-contributory pension that may be paid to individuals who are age 80 or over and receive little to no Basic State Pension, subject to specific residence conditions. Contracting Out: If you were a member of certain workplace or personal pensions, you and your employer likely "contracted out" of the Additional State Pension (SERPS/S2P). Because you paid lower National Insurance rates during those years, this part of your state pension may be reduced, though the value should be reflected in your private pension instead. commonslibrary.parliament.uk +5

@MontyDonsBlueScarf

There's a difference between knowing it was going to happen, and understanding how you were going to be affected. This is how the old state pension is made up. I'm surprised anyone can think that's not complicated and I don't think it's reasonable to expect the average woman to have been able to work out her entitlement by herself.

All that is a completely valid, but very different, point to the Waspi women who are mostly complaining about their state retirement age, not the amount. Yes, calculating/estimating amounts was always hard, but that's not the complaint, which is the date they became entitled to the state pension, regardless of the amount.

I recommend this paper from the Institute of Fiscal Studies to anyone who still thinks that calculating an individual's old state pension was a simple matter.

https://ifs.org.uk/sites/default/files/output_url_files/bn105.pdf

Sections 3 and 4 cover pension calculations and take up 36 pages.

People who have just reached 66 are still eligible to apply for state pension. Maybe your Mum deferred it a year which is possible and for which you can receive slightly more in lieu of that deferral.

All 50's-born women are now in receipt of their pensions, with some of those born in the early part of the decade having been able to claim it for 16 years.

I know it's been said before on here, but the campaign groups would likely have had more success if their efforts had been targeted at those in greatest need rather than a blanket "every woman born in the 50's".

As it stands, WASPI 'S biggest success seems to be in lining the pockets of their lawyers and PR advisors.

The ombudsman recommendation for £1000-£3000 each would cost the country a fortune while making little difference to individual lives of the women.

Yes PP. I am 68, born in 1958, and got my state pension the month I turned 66. You or your mum have got this wrong.

I think it’s time for Waspi women to give this up. And I’m one of them. We all have a responsibility to manage our own finances and this change was widely trailed. Would you like tax evaders to be let off because they ‘didn’t know’ or ‘didn't understand’ or ‘didn't plan’?

I am a woman in my late 60s and don’t have a single friend or relative who didn’t get this message if they’re honest.

I'm not sure we (or the government) should be able to ignore the ruling of an ombudsman because it would cost the country a fortune. There are many things that cost the country a fortune that I don't agree with.

It wasn't a 'ruling'. The Ombudsman made a recommendation. The Government is not legally obliged to act upon it.

The compensation is a recommendation. The ruling is that the DWP failed to supply adequate notice of the change.

Yes, but the 'compensation' part is the crucial bit in response to the PP who said we couldn't ignore the 'ruling' because it would cost the nation a lot of money.
The government isn't arguing with the findings, they are simply not acting on the recommended compensation. Which they do not legally have to do.