AIBU to think that WASPI women should not be entitled to compensation?

[mugglewump]

They've been on the news again marching for compensation in a climate where the government is having to make very difficult decisions about funding to stop our debt ever increasing.

I think there are far more deserving cases for goverment money than women who didn't act on information at the time and sort their pensions out or keep working (p/t or f/t) until retirement age.

Moreover, the people paying this compensation are those who will be working until they are 67 to 70 to claim a state pension. Surely, it's a bit ick to expect them to bail out women who retired at 60?

People are missing the point. It's not about whose fault it was. It's that DWP failed to act properly and people were disadvantaged as a result.

Many seem to think that that's perfectly OK.

Perhaps one of you could explain why you think that? The DWP knew that its message wasn't getting to the right people, that the clock was ticking for those people, and still did nothing to improve their communications for over a year. Is this how we want government departments to behave?

To be clear, I'm a Waspi, I don't think that compensation should be paid to everyone but as a matter of principle I think that anyone who was materially disadvantaged specifically by the DWP's action (or lack of action) should be compensated. Bolded to emphasise that everyone is to some extent disadvantaged by the raising of the retirement age and that's not what I'm talking about.

I just don’t think that the age can keep going up and up much more. Just from a straightforward human perspective. Age related stuff comes to us all at varying times, and certainly I wouldn’t want to work past being able to do my best for my employer, to show up and be reliable etc. At some point the basic human condition needs to be considered. And yes this will be a very personal and individual thing, and will depend on your line of work, and I’m not being ageist by saying that. Personally I think that age is actually 65, obviously when you don’t consider affordability and all that.

There won’t be any compensation. Not for the WASPI women or for the millions of voters led up the garden path by Labour in opposition who said they’d pay out when they got into power.

More fool everyone, really.

Nobody has ever told me my pension age is increasing to 68, yet somehow I know about it… (Fully expect it to increase further, so will be checking BEFORE I make any big decisions about leaving work)

Also, it’s a bit different working at 80 to working in your 60s. Do get a bit of perspective here.

Of course I won't be happy working until 80. Fully expect I will have to though. If my current retirement age isn't pushed further away than it it now it'll be a happy surprise.
Women MUST have expected this, they've been living on borrowed time, re retirement, since 1970.

I don't know why WASPI women can't just be grateful for the fact they'll get to retire earlier than younger people. But no, they want younger people, will have even later retirement ages to pay them some 'compensation'.

@taxguru I think that's a bit harsh. There's a difference between knowing about something and understanding how it will affect you. When it's something like seat belts that affects everyone the same way, that doesn't matter. When it's something that depends on your personal circumstances, like pensions or dare I say it tax, it matters a lot.

I find it easy to believe that the DWP didn't always give people the information they needed. I'm still waiting for them to explain the small increase in my pension following my DH'S death two years ago. I'm not in a position to work this out myself as I don't have his pension contributions record. I've asked several times without success. I've given up now, but if at some point in the future it turns out that I'm entitled to more, I'd certainly be looking for compensation.

Sure I'll have a crack at explaining that. It's the duty of adults to take responsibility for themselves and it's utterly impractical for government to hold everyone's hand every time a thing changes.

Nevertheless the government actually did a hell of a lot of hand holding in this instance. This has got to be one of the best publicised and most telegraphed change in spending that affects personal finances in the history of the country ever. I defy you to point to one where people had more than the nearly two decades of continuous notice that was given as a minimum to the WASPIs or with such an extensive campaign to promote awareness.

Governments can and must make decisions that affect people for the worse all the time. People had house purchases collapse when Osborne change stamp duty thresholds with less than a day's notice and no personal letters to the affected. Any manner of people have been harmed by the imposition of VAT on school fees with a couple of months notice in the middle of a school year and no personal letters to the affected.

Thanks @SlipDigby , I actually agree with what you're saying but if you look at my comment on @taxguru 's post (which I think crossed with yours) it explains why I think pensions are in a different category.

I absolutely agree with your last paragraph but I don't see how it's relevant. The point is that people were harmed by the DWP'S failures, not by the decision to raise the retirement age.

I'm sorry but is there any other way a pension age increase could affect you? Age goes up, you can't claim it until then. Assuming (based on what, I'm not sure) it doesn't apply to you isn't the same as a misunderstanding.

Great post.

@Digdongdoo There may have been women who assumed it didn't apply to them, but I haven't seen that said anywhere. I have seen people say that they made decisions based on the amount they thought they'd get, as well as the date they'd get it. If they tried to check and they didn't get a proper individual reply then I think they should be compensated.

To be honest, as I’ve said before I am affected but whilst a bit pissed off I am over it now. I am fit and well and my finances are good - due to my DH being diligent about planning ahead. In fairness I don’t NEED the money but many women have not been able to plan and save over decades as my DH did. He actually retired at 62 and I retired at 60 to support caring for FiL. He has since passed but I can’t get a job anywhere near like what I had as employers see me as too old.
Also, growing up I was saturated with the promise of a benevolent government caring for its people from cradle to grave, social
housing with inside toilet and bathroom, a wonderful nhs, free school milk and dinners and families lifted out of poverty. How naive that seems now but it was almost a religion how great Britain was.
But the family silver has been sold and much of it to foreign investors who only care for profit. Hence the country is on its uppers and can’t afford pensioners.

Yes the harsh responses are a feature on this thread. I’ve had enough now.

Also, growing up I was saturated with the promise of a benevolent government caring for its people from cradle to grave, social
housing with inside toilet and bathroom, a wonderful nhs, free school milk and dinners and families lifted out of poverty. How naive that seems now but it was almost a religion how great Britain was.

I think that's really interesting. I'm not yet 40 and can just about remember things feeling quite positive, mostly with the Blair election and the early 2000s. When I chat to people my age and Gen Zers, their living or working memory essentially started with the 2008 crash and has gotten gradually worse and worse and worse. Certainly nobody I know in my age group or below considers any government we've ever had benevolent, and indeed most of us are now jaded to the point where we expect to be shit upon by all and sundry. None of my peers are expecting state pensions and we joke we'll all die at work.

I think the societal soup you grow up in has such a profound effect, and it really reveals itself when it comes to issues such as WASPIs, where those who grew up with your 'saturation' may struggle to understand why those younger than them are so opposed to the idea of the government compensating one group for failing them. But it's because they've failed us our entire lives.

@fitzwilliamdarcy I agree, younger people than I have seen government very differently because politicians are mostly self serving. I have little faith in the vast majority of ministers - out of touch and don’t give a shit about the voters beyond election results.
When I was young, politicians served the people and we were all better for it. I’m sure there were grabbers and sex pests amongst them but I think generally most were fairly honourable and worked hard.

So many comments on here are blaming women for not knowing. Many comments are very harsh. I’m an intelligent woman. I have O and A levels, a diploma, a degree and a post grad in teaching. I was born in 1954 so one of the worst affected by the changes. I didn’t receive a letter. I didn’t know about the changes. According to many on this thread, it’s my own fault that I didn’t know.

Did you engage in politics at all?

We can't afford pensions now, regardless of any other issues.

So, in other words an assumption? I haven't seen anyone say they tried to check and were unable or given wrong information, have you?

The increase in your pension is almost certainly because at some point in his working life your husband wasn't contracted out so received SERPS or state second pension and you have inherited part of it.

What has engagement in politics got to do with anything?

The women I know who were affected were more concerned with the horrendous hikes in their mortgages at the time than worrying about their pensions. The interest rates were through the roof and houses were being repossesed or were in negative equity and huge losses were made, and loans were being imposed on people to pay this back, through no fault of their own.

This was well before the times of 'government gateway' codes to check pension levels.

I got very, very lucky, and got a job which I didn't know at the time, had a final salary pension built in, which meant I had this to fall back on. Many of the women I worked with before that job had no way of going back to university and getting higher quals, at the time that the free degrees were also withdrawn, so no way of increasing their income. Also at the time, the companies I knew were getting people to opt out of private pensions to avoid having to pay into them.

A part time job in a supermarket would suffice for the years from 60 to 65. It would bring in the same amount as state pension.

So you can understand why we shouldn't be paying out to people who don't need it.

@AlisonDonut

The women I know who were affected were more concerned with the horrendous hikes in their mortgages at the time than worrying about their pensions.

So even when they knew, they weren't in a position to do anything about it. So it doesn't matter whether they knew or not, does it? If they were so pre-occupied with mortgages that they weren't in a position to change their long term planning! The whole rationale of the Waspi complaints are lack of communication, not the rise in pension age. They can't complain if they'd not have done anything different had they known - it's the same end result. But it's still no excuse to withdraw from society and ignore what's going on out in the World!

Well said! Nail on the head.