To wonder what will happen about the government's 'free' breakfast club proposal?!

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They have been talking a lot today about saving families £450 a year, but I just can't see how this is going to work?

They are paying 60p per child per day, which might pay for a Weetabix and a bit of toast, but doesn't take into account the staffing (and any energy costs) that this will require!

We already have a small school with a successful breakfast club running, with smallish numbers but all can sit down and eat together. Parents pay a reasonable amount for it and this pays for 1/2 members of staff, depending on numbers. If this was opened up to all parents as a free option, we simply wouldn't have enough space to put everyone in the hall-it would be mayhem.

The school budget doesn't have any spare cash in it for TA staffing costs (normally paid for by parents paying) so where are schools expected to find this money from?

Are school buses gonna change timetables to pick up earlier to get all kids to this? Or do you only get to eat if you live nearby?

it relied on volunteer staff which wasn’t sustainable

Absolutely-this can't be another unpaid expectation for school staff.

Bridget Phillipson offers something 'free' to parents which is the precious free time of existing school staff who are already leaving their jobs at an alarming rate, due to workload!

You need to appreciate there is a massive difference between large city schools which are staffed with money from higher rate per pupil, EHCPs LACs and pupil premium compared to a primary with 3 classes, 57 pupils and no TAs.

Staffing is definitely an issue that hasn't been considered. Those saying TAs flexitime, they are still being paid - the example given was just some start and then finish earlier.

My other concern is what about children who require 1:1 TAs. There are a number of children who have this support in the school day, usually linked to one or two adults. Will these adults be willing and even able to come in early to support their 1:1 and also will the school paid for this povision.

My foster son goes to a special school that has funding for a breakfast club. He insists on going because his friend does. He is given cereal and half a toasted bagel. I don't know where this finding comes from but every morning I cook sausages and hash browns with a poached egg, or scrambled eggs and plum tomatoes on toast for breakfast so I'd really prefer him to have some of that. He has school hot lunches but they don't get much food he has told me only tiny portions for a teen boy. One day he told me he'd had pizza. I said oh you like pizza and he said he was only given 1 🍕 slice. It will be good for some DC who don't get any given breakfast at home and go to school hungry.

I don't feel it's motivated by wanting to feed children, it's about cheap childcare to get more people into work.

Anyone tried to give breakfast to a child who doesn't want it?

At every school I’ve worked in, the staff get in between 30-60 minutes early to prep for the day. They’re probably relying on that 🙄.

My other concern is what about children who require 1:1 TAs. There are a number of children who have this support in the school day, usually linked to one or two adults. Will these adults be willing and even able to come in early to support their 1:1 and also will the school paid for this povision.

Most schools will not be able to pay for pupils to routinely have 1:1s outside of school hours.

The terrible state of NHS dentistry, and the NHS in general, is due to years and years of Tory government neglect.
I can’t see how the breakfast clubs will work though. I’m a TA and I am not going to staff them, neither will most of my TA colleagues - most of us have become TAs to work around family commitments.

This is one of the labour policies I can get on board with. There is absolutely no reason why a parent shouldn’t be at work once their child is old enough to be in school unless you can physically afford to support yourself. In which case it’s nobodies business what you do.

Mmm - primary play work ratios are 1:8. You can’t have one member of staff preparing food and supervising 30 children safely, Pension contributions, employers National insurance. Heating, lighting. Staff training - food handling, first aid, paediatric and adult, positive handling. Cost of materials for some activities when they’ve finished eating. Including the fact that the majority of schools are already setting deficit budgets at year 2……glad I’ve just left education!

The ones this is aimed at won't attend, it's hard enough getting those children in as it is.

Devil is in the details!

The "free" breakfast club will be very short, the planned one here (my friend is setting it up) is just 20 minutes long, you drop off at 8.30 rather than 8.50, there's a paying option to drop off at 8am.

she's the leader and preps the food (very basic) and has one assistant from 8, then there's a rota of teaching staff as extra supervision from 8.30 as it basically replaces playground duty (you can already drop off into the playground from year 3 from 8.30, years r-2 straight into classrooms at 8.50).

The school has 140 students so not huge, hence her prepping, they have ordered those toasters you get in hotels last week. It opens after Easter

Exactly. But they surely wouldn't be able to discriminate and say that these children cannot access the breakfast club...so that will definitely pose a problem, especially with the runners. I don't see how even a headteacher would be able to supervise these children without having more support.

It's not discriminating to say 121 is not offered outside of school hours. Smh

Our sons UK primary school did a free breakfast club from 8am, those needing it between 7:30-7:59 paid £2. Looking at their website the free breakfast club is still running. When I was applying for primary schools for him the majority of the ones I looked at had a free breakfast club.

I doubt there are many EHCPs that state a pupil requires 1:1 in childcare settings, which is what breakfast club is, so only a very very small number of schools will need to provide 1:1 support during their childcare offering.

But if all children are entitled to the free breakfast club then could the parents not argue they are not able to access this?

Vast amounts of schools already offer these, without any of the drama suggested by the school staff on this thread.

I'm concerned by the can't-do attitude of so many posting here.

There was a similar can't-do attitude to universal FSM in KS1 when that first came out. And yet here we are, with it happening across the country.

It wouldn't be possible for any of the familiar staff who support our 1:1 children to work a breakfast club as they do the TA role specifically as it enables them to be with their own children in the mornings.

Parents anticipating that their high need child would get free 1:1 before school childcare is yet another difficulty that the government probably didn't consider!

If your friend is part of the free trial, then they are running it 10 minutes too short. It has to be 30 minutes to qualify.

No, you can't. Because thats not what EHCPs generally do.

Similarly you couldn't insist on 121 at Brownies / Cubs / football club / swimming and anything else out of school.

Many organisations will attempt to offer as inclusive an environment as they can for children with SEND needs. But it will not be the case of - you either provide the non-complusary 121 or close down and don't offer the extracurricular to anyone. They won't be compelled to offer the support, but a conversation and can-do attitude ususlly finds a solution.

as they do the TA role specifically as it enables them to be with their own children in the mornings.

The school can contract a TA to do whatever they like. If that means starting at 8am, the TAs can be contracted to start at 8am.

With all due respect, TA roles are the easiest to fill (I hire TAs). People fall over themselves for the job. You don't wanna start at 8am then fine - the school won't have a problem finding half a dozen others who will.

I can't imagine staff wanting to work for free though. What suggestions would you have for this?
There are some children who are runners, some who threaten to harm themselves and also some who harm others.
I don't see other parents being happy if their child comes home and says at breakfast club they were kicked by X, and then says X usually has an adult with them in the classroom but doesn't at breakfast time. Parents are understandably upset when incidents happen with a TA in a classroom.

As also stated, it isn't going to be the case of having all children in one dining hall. Ours can take two year groups seated at the tables. This means you need staff in multiple rooms and whatever breakfast is offered needs to be low mess, as the last thing teachers need is to come into a messy room at the start of the day.

I'm concerned by the can't-do attitude of so many posting here.

I'm concerned by the people that think just because breakfast club works well in their inner city school, secondary or school with high PP numbers, that it would work in smaller schools, those in a budget deficit or those with low PP numbers.