To wonder what will happen about the government's 'free' breakfast club proposal?!

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They have been talking a lot today about saving families £450 a year, but I just can't see how this is going to work?

They are paying 60p per child per day, which might pay for a Weetabix and a bit of toast, but doesn't take into account the staffing (and any energy costs) that this will require!

We already have a small school with a successful breakfast club running, with smallish numbers but all can sit down and eat together. Parents pay a reasonable amount for it and this pays for 1/2 members of staff, depending on numbers. If this was opened up to all parents as a free option, we simply wouldn't have enough space to put everyone in the hall-it would be mayhem.

The school budget doesn't have any spare cash in it for TA staffing costs (normally paid for by parents paying) so where are schools expected to find this money from?

Surely current school breakfast clubs will continue to run as they do now but parents won't be charged less the 'free' 30 mins. Schools will need to work out how this will work with outside providers but that's why only a number of schools are trialing it to work this out!

Problem is if it's mandatory for all schools to eventually have a club and they don't currently run one is the staffing...it's hard enough recruiting in a school as it is.

I don't think all the parents in a school are going to suddenly rush to use the club because of the 'free' 30 mins, you may get a slight increase as the 'free' element makes it more affordable for some but at the end of the day a school only has limited space to run and therefore can only accept those for whom they have space.

This. Parents should feed their own children 🙄🤷‍♀️

Our school has a free breakfast club already, funded by Greggs. It's only 20 minutes or so though and is run by volunteers as far as I'm aware.

Yep and Labour are taking credit for those as well don't worry!

At the moment my sons breakfast club is fully booked. There are 45 spaces for 460 children. There is one childminder that will drop off at school. Bookings are made half a term in advance and the spaces are booked within minutes. The school only has a small school hall which serves as the cafeteria as well. So I am not sure where they would put the extra children. School was built as a 1.5 form entry but is now a 2 form entry so we have huts on the playing fields to accommodate the extra classes needed.

I welcome the idea of free breakfast clubs for children, but I think it needs to be thought out better. At a nearby school almost 50% of children are on FSM and they have year six pupils handing out bagels to children from a hut in the car park. It is very popular.

I've been working in a primary school free-at-the-point-of-use breakfast club for 15 years. It's long been a thing in Wales.

It will be interesting to see what the schools are actually required to do by the government.

Will it be free breakfast/30 minutes childcare for

-all children who happen to turn up on the day?

-all children providing they have booked a week in advance?
-all children even if they have SEND and will need a 1:1 for thirty minutes daily at the school's expense.
-only a limited number that can be seated in the hall, so not available for everyone.

If schools are in a deficit budget and can prove that

• 60p per day per child will only pay for food and won't cover staffing, or

-their hall is too small to feed all of the children in half an hour (and can't afford staff to supervise children in their individual classrooms)

...can they opt out?

What will be law?

Our local MP is boasting about the "free" breakfast clubs at DDs ex-primary school. They have been running a free one for years + only have <7% FSM kids. But yeh what a triumph 🙄

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvg1p0zv541o

The image the BBC have chosen is showing a cooked breakfast! For 60p? With staff and a fully cooked breakfast…
23000 for 50% attendance is stated. That is what half a teacher?

As someone upthread posted: **

190 school days at 60p per child per day means that £23k works out at around 200 children.

I think that's the thinking behind it. You couldn't have just one member of staff to feed and supervise 200 children though, you'd need maybe one for 30? Plus access to multiple rooms (which would all need cleaning afterwards!)

We already do morning jobs. I wouldn't want to replace that with listening to music and reading books - both of which are in the curriculum at other regular times anyway.

Those morning jobs are well thought out, provide review time opportunities and also a chance for teaching staff to see how a child is recalling previously taught information.

In our school we would need to do the Breakfast Club in classrooms, if even 50% of the school took part. That means a toaster in most rooms, plus staff to supervise. That isn't a free cost. It also needs someone to go out and purchase the food, and a fridge to store things like butter.

I think some people forget that not all schools are swimming with room. We are an old Victorian building. Space is something we do not have!

I think finding space is red herring, you can have different classes eating at different times

Not really.

The time allocated is not long enough to allow breakfast to be done in shifts. The children will need to come in, get food, eat, clear up and be ready for learning time.

It takes us the best part of an hour to get children through lunch.

I saw an article today in the local paper. They're trialling it at some local schools (not ours unfortunately) so guess we'll see.

In reality, I think they are better off focusing on making sure the funding for 3-4 year olds won’t lead to mass issues in private nurseries and make sure there are enough primaries with attached preschools for 3-4 year olds. So those kids are school ready. That seems to be the current most urgent bottleneck in the system.

I think the French system of childcare is good and I think we need more state provision. It would also enable us to identify and support special needs much earlier. Which would be far better for society in the long run. We could really have a good system with NHS and education working well together, if there were the will to sort this out properly. Like vaccination and dental visits in schools from an early age (3 onwards). That would make a difference and help most parents work.

Ah this is about childcare rather than nutrition?

so I’m in France and yes school is totally organised around parents working hours. Nursery starts at 2/3 years old. Completely free in the public sector. The standard school day in my area is 8am to 4:30pm, four days a week. This can be extended to start at 7:30am and finish at 6:00pm with before and after school care. There’s a 2 hour lunch break usually. The long days are very hard going on young children, but at least the option is there for working parents - and especially for mothers who usually bear the brunt of childcare.

Teachers aren’t expected to work outside the official school hours. Instead a team of ‘périscolaire’ staff supervise the children before and after school, and during the lunch break. But it all happens at school. Wednesday is traditionally a day for sports / activities but again children can be signed up for périscolaire activities, also in the school. All the périscolaire activités are charged for, but its means tested (as is everything school related here) and are very cheap compared to the many private providers.

It certainly doesn’t translate into better / earlier identification of special needs, but that’s more a cultural thing - France is notoriously dire at dealing with any kind of SEN.

None of the providers include breakfast, though children can probably bring their own. Ditto for after school, a goûter / snack needs to be supplied by the parents.

Yes it is about people getting to work earlier and supporting that primarily, because the nation is supposedly unproductive.
The point about SEND - it can be difficult to tell in the early years what are just delays due to parenting and what is genuine SEND. Getting most DCs into a system earlier will help with differentiating between those.
They cannot feed kids for 60p in a healthy way and should focus the food aspect on those with FSM. I think they should consult with schools and let them implement what suits their cohort best. One size fits all never ever works.

I worked at a secondary that had compulsory breakfast for staff and students. In some ways it was a pain because your time slot might be 15 mins in to the first lesson but you didn't have hungry kids.

I do feel maybe it’s a move towards lengthening the school day and they are hoping this helps

Totally agree that there needs to be more state provision.

We find it incredibly hard to recruit TAs. They are mostly used as 1 to 1 support for children with very challenging behaviour. No one wants to do this very draining job and often entails being physically and verbally attacked.

Yes it is about people getting to work earlier and supporting that primarily, because the nation is supposedly unproductive.

I’ve never seen the numbers but surely the state provision of childcare and school hours to fit working parents would have a hugely beneficial impact on productivity? The sheer cost of childcare in the UK must prevent loads of people working full time or even at all?

I saw a proposal a while back (not an official proposal, an article in an education magazine) that teachers could get priority in admissions for primary schools in their local area so they could (essentially) pick a school to facilitate childcare drop off in time to get to their own school.

Now considering the government funds the state schools and is constantly dealing with a severe teacher shortage, and that women in their 30s leave teaching at a greater rate than all new entrants into the profession, you'd think that one would be a complete no brainer in terms of policy.

But it isn't policy.

If the government can't even see the connection there with something they actually directly fund, I wouldn't be holding my breath for any other joined up policy thinking!

I agree OP. It sounds good but hasn't been thought through or funded. It would be better to give that money directly to schools to spend in the way they think best - with the caveat that it can't go on senior leaders pay (which has gone up massively BTW whilst everything else has been cut to the bone)

The sheer cost of childcare in the UK must prevent loads of people working full time or even at all?

Yes, probably, but expecting schools to manage the problem but allocating them insufficient money, really isn't the solution!