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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Teachers : what's the worst thing about the job now?

632 replies

Floursacktabletop · 22/02/2025 20:31

I've name changed , but been here many years and teaching for 22 years.
Dreading going back on Monday. For me , the worst bit is the increasingly poor behaviour of students and the continual parental complaints and allegations.
Anyone else dreading it and fancy a solidarity thread?

OP posts:
baklava · 23/02/2025 00:21

Now out of teaching

everychildmatters · 23/02/2025 00:21

Everything.
Left last December after 20 years a primary teacher.
Best. Decision. Ever.
No idea why I'd didn't do it sooner!

Untroddenpeaks · 23/02/2025 00:22

This is probably not a place for parents to contribute but as a parent trying to work with the school to combat ‘emotinally based school refusal’ that involves a fair amount of pure defiance, I’d say schools really have their hands tied in enforcing consistent discipline when so many pupils have additional needs and the input of outside agencies such as camhs, who have perhaps more compassionate approaches and more forgiving strategies. It may be normal for a school to suggest isolation for example as a sanction for a student that truants a lesson, but in the case of ebsa this isn’t considered an optimum solution by outside professionals involved . Difficult for teachers when one student is to be sent to isolation and another is to be sent to a nurture room with beanbags and fairylights for avoiding lessons.

GavlarShmavlar · 23/02/2025 00:30

I left in the summer after 25 years and haven't regretted it for a second. I was SLT in a secondary school and, as with a PP, desperately frustrated by the layer above me not having a clue about how to run a school. I was an Assistant Head- the worst position because teachers and middle leaders think you should be able to change/improve things whilst the layer above thwarts you at every turn. I'm now tutoring and running multiple projects on a self employed basis.

BoundaryGirl3939 · 23/02/2025 00:31

Em1ly2023 · 23/02/2025 00:18

Please encourage her to get help, or this will take an even worse toll on her MH. Has she escalated it at the school?

She hasn't escalated it as she feels it's her fault they don't respect or listen to her. I did advise her to seek counselling which she was very, very open to and said she would. I think she needs to share her problems with a professional and practice assertiveness with students/parents. She said she feels overwhelmed and sometimes doesn't have the energy to manage it all. She is a hardworking but gentle by nature.

OneWildNightWithJBJ · 23/02/2025 00:36

I’m in a SEND school and I’d say parents. The things they’re asking for are unbelievable and there’s little thanks for doing stuff that’s not even part of my job.

In mainstream, I would have said behaviour and for both mainstream and special, ridiculous and pointless paperwork. Hardly any of it benefits the children. So pointless.

oakleaffy · 23/02/2025 00:40

adviceneeded1990 · 22/02/2025 23:47

People who make comments like this are generally the people who would be rocking back and forth in a corner by lunchtime should they decide to try teaching for a day 🤣

Absolutely true.

They'd be ''moning'' alright, they wouldn't have a clue how to manage a class.
Good teachers are highly skilled and talented- and all power to them.

It's a very hard job, much harder than in mum's day- She used to to teach juniors in a tough area of London, before moving to West London but support from parents was much stronger- The kids generally behaved well, { they didn't want to get into trouble with their parents} But discipline at home seems to have fallen off a cliff. {Discipline isn't about physical punishment , but boundaries and consequences.

Snoopdoggydog123 · 23/02/2025 00:40

MrsHamlet · 22/02/2025 23:33

This absolute fuckwittery.

Bob is going to fail his GCSEs because he's choosing to communicate that he's an absolute asshat in numerous ways. I have been communicating this up the line since the start of year ten.

No I will not give up my breaks and lunchtimes to "support him". He can try paying attention and doing the work.

No I can't "give him some revision materials". He has been given a gazillion and done fuck all with them.

My behaviour should now be communicating that failing his GCSEs is his choice.

It's rampant in Primary.

Little Jimmy isn't doing his work ans choosing to destroy the class and hurt his peers......
It's because the environment isn't inclusive..
It's because we aren't building a relationship..
It's because.....

It's because the little shit was never told no and has never actually been informed he's not that important and he needs to get the fuck on with life.

ShoalShark · 23/02/2025 00:42

I've not taught in a few years, but parents for me too. I'm not going to rehash what has already been said very well.

One extra thing though, that I think I struggled with was the narrative that seemed to shift to learning being a passive thing done TO children that they had no control over or responsibility for.

There was a specific period where I remember the performy all-singing and all-dancing lessons were all the rage. Everyone was turning their classrooms into under the sea exhibitions. Everyone was acting out crimes for kids to write newspapers about. Everything was projects and making things fun and engaging. Making theme parks and pretend towns made out of nets in Maths, for example.

On it's own, this all sounds very good and I would agree to an extent. I would not want to go back to the chalkboard then textbook lessons that I had in the 90s, although I was happy with them at the time and enjoyed school. I still have memories of fun lessons - a box with mystery clues or going out and measuring the playground, but they were occasional.

I think it was right for occasional to become regular, but I worry it shouldn't have become 'always'. I worry that we created an environment where lessons are about being entertained.

In the 'no worksheets and no textbooks' schools, I worried that we were becoming reliant on that really high level of stimulation. If in every lesson we were measuring out potions or creating fractions board games with bits of coloured paper or whatever, then that's not a special fun lesson. It's just a normal lesson. When I first got into teaching, I thought this was a good thing - that it should be what normal lessons look like every day.

In practice, the culture was that any behaviour issues means your lesson isn't engaging enough. If a child gets it wrong it means you haven't explained it well enough, which might sound reasonable at first, but completely ignores all of the other reasons a child may be struggling to focus or even choosing not to focus.

I once taught an intervention group. I noticed that the children I did extra intervention lessons with had a pattern where I'd teach the content in class, and their eyes would glaze over and they'd tell me they don't understand it and I'd try and explain it in all different ways, and be met with a bemused silence.

Then in intervention lessons they'd pick things up very quickly, even when I was teaching it in the same way. I initially assumed being in a larger class was distracting but it was the same even when I sat with them during the lesson in a small group. Eventually one of them told me that they don't always pay attention in class because they know I'll tell them again later so they can just wait until then.

I don't think that it's always possible to choose to pay attention and force yourself to focus. But I don't think a lot of children actually knew that learning was something that does require mental effort, is actually quite tiring and involves actively trying to engage your mind in a way that feels like hard work. I feel that combined with screens, a lot of children had very little experience feeling bored or ever doing something they didn't find really fun and entertaining.

So no, I don't want a class of 30 silent kids writing lines or copying out of dictionaries, but also it's a classroom and not a cruise ship. From speaking to ex-colleagues, especially in academies, it does sound like the pendulum started to swing back regarding 'fun' and 'boring' lessons, but the sole responsibility on the teacher remained.

To put it simply, when I was a kid, I'd be scared of a teacher telling my mum I wasn't paying attention in class because I'd get in trouble at home. By the time I left, I would say a large majority of parents at the school I were in would have told me it was my fault and I wasn't being engaging enough if I'd said the same thing to them.

oakleaffy · 23/02/2025 00:45

Snoopdoggydog123 · 23/02/2025 00:40

It's rampant in Primary.

Little Jimmy isn't doing his work ans choosing to destroy the class and hurt his peers......
It's because the environment isn't inclusive..
It's because we aren't building a relationship..
It's because.....

It's because the little shit was never told no and has never actually been informed he's not that important and he needs to get the fuck on with life.

Spot on.

Parents who want to be ''a best friend'' to their child, rather than being a parent, and saying ''No'' to things.

Gorgeousfeet · 23/02/2025 00:45

BookASpaceCadets · 22/02/2025 20:49

Parents.
They will blame school for every little problem they can actually think of.
Some things are so ridiculous you couldn’t make them up!

The parents is an interesting one. Can you give any examples. I say that as most of ours are reasonably okay; gossipy but seemingly okay.
Just curious really.

Pissoffyouall · 23/02/2025 00:46

Floursacktabletop · 22/02/2025 23:36

How old is your child?

Primary

Violashifts · 23/02/2025 00:51

@Gorgeousfeet
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/amiibeingunreasonable/5265343-blame-school-child-or-both?page=2&reply=141831497

oakleaffy · 23/02/2025 00:52

Superb post, @ShoalShark .

Learning is tiring.
It requires concentration, and the ability to actively listen and read.

Regarding you being worried about getting into trouble at home, absolutely true- no one wanted to get told off by mum if they were late home because they had a 15 minute detention.

Comfortablycosy · 23/02/2025 00:52

This thread is really worrying.

I don’t work in education but this thread echoes what I see in the community. My parents have lived in the same house for over forty years. They are regularly intimidated by gangs of primary school age children and now want to leave their much loved home.

Speaking to their parents about their behaviour results in abuse and excuses about additional needs. I’m really angry about it and there doesn’t seem to be a way to resolve it.

WarmthAndDepth · 23/02/2025 00:54

God help the learners with SEN. There is so little for them, and, as a primary teacher, I feel like I can see the trajectory of under-resourcing and unmet need like a slow motion train wreck about to impact those children (and their poor families!) as they transition to secondary school. It is negligent and cynical.

Also workload. I bust a gut for my pupils, their parents and my colleagues with very little to show for it bar subpar outcomes for my own family.

Pissoffyouall · 23/02/2025 00:54

SquashedSquid · 22/02/2025 23:47

Those are rookie numbers 😁 In myy last class of 33, 19 had EHCPs and another 5 had parents that were pushing for them. I had five TAs, four were 1-2-1s due to one disability and 3 severe behavioural issues. In that class were a couple of runners, a child who would harm themselves with anything they could get hold of if you took your eyes off them for more than a split second, one that would do the same but to other people, one whose speciality was spitting directly into the faces of staff, and one who enjoyed hurling chairs and tables at the windows and other children.

They were 7-8 year olds.

That was a fun year.

It's not safe at all for them to be in a mainstream classroom. What is your view on why such a high proportion of pupils have Sen? Is it closure of special schools in the past or something else?

TempestTost · 23/02/2025 01:01

ItsAToughie · 22/02/2025 21:49

It's been a massive shock to me working in SEN after so long in mainstream with children with additional needs who I thought would be so much better off in dedicated SEN provision.

Class of 10 with 4 adults. 5 absolute maximum.
1 child becomes dysregulated - 2 adults needed to help regulate and keep child safe from themselves/hurting other children.
Leaves 2 adults with 9 children with severe needs. Guaranteed another child will become upset and dysregulated as a result.
Further 2 adults needed to help regulate and keep that child safe.
Leaves maximum of 1 more likely 0 adults to support the remaining 8 children with severe needs.

It's fucking dangerous.

I have to ask - if some of these kids are this seriously impacted, is a school setting ever going to be appropriate for them?

My niece, with severe autism, was eventually pulled out of school because her mum came to the conclusion that it was just a holding place for her, and she wasn't getting anything out of it, just impacting the other kids. She's mainly at home now and does some programs weekly to help her with improving her ability at daily life tasks and to be fun.

That honestly seems like a more reasonable approach for her, and I can only imagine for some other kids as well. What does being in a classroom like you describe accomplish?

TempestTost · 23/02/2025 01:14

FrippEnos · 23/02/2025 00:07

The closure of SEND schools has had an impact on the level of pupils with a SEND.
Part of the issue is "inclusive education" it was never meant to be for all children, its was supposed to be for those with disabilities that should never excluded them in the first place. But the government saw it as a chance to reduce spending on education and now schools cannot cope with the numbers that are coming through.
And remember that the requirements/thresholds to get extra funding for pupils with SEND was raised, dropping that amount of funding that schools had available.

I think that there is also, in the background, the fact that it's now normative, and necessary, to have two working parents. And not p/t work in many cases, two full time jobs in order to get by.

What that means is as much as we'd like to deny it, for many parents they need to have their kids in school to allow them to work. It's not just about providing an appropriate education - it's keeping the kids out of parents hair to allow them to earn.

Kids who would one have been kept at home, or in more flexible education arrangements, now need to be in school.

Charismatica · 23/02/2025 01:17

adviceneeded1990 · 22/02/2025 23:47

People who make comments like this are generally the people who would be rocking back and forth in a corner by lunchtime should they decide to try teaching for a day 🤣

Excellent comment, spot on!

Pissoffyouall · 23/02/2025 01:17

friendlycat · 23/02/2025 00:00

God it’s depressing reading this. My late parents were both teachers and one used to comment on the high expectations of parents wanting their child to achieve exceptional grades ready for university, whilst the other had concerns about violence in an inner London school.

Being 60 it’s so apparent that times have changed and resilience and good behaviour are not the norm anymore. It amazes me reading posts on this forum from parents who somehow think it’s up to the school to not only educate their child, but to also teach them values, responsibility and resilience whilst at the same time undermining teachers and schools at every opportunity.

Acceptable behaviour used to be part and parcel of the upbringing of a child, but somehow this seems to hard, too harsh, not enough time in the day etc.

I realise that many families now obviously have two working parents and other generations may have had the mother at home, but children need boundaries introduced at a young age. You only have to hear of the perceived entitlement of school leavers entering the workplace and the shock they encounter having to adhere to working life.

Both my parents took early retirement and certainly things were easier than now.

While i agree with a lot, can we be careful placing the blame with working mothers? Or at least start equally blaming working fathers?

Throughout most of history mothers worked. In much of Northern Europe stay at home mothers wasn't ever a thing, yet children weren't abusing teachers, assaulting girls, bringing knives in, and doing county lines.

Nowadays parenting is so overinvested in a way it never was before that those working mothers actually spend more time than ever with their children. Even though they work. Particularly if they work.

The ones that are disinterested you'll probably find are indeed the stay at home workshy ones.

If you think back to the 50s or 60s which I guess is the period in history when fewer mothers may have worked in the uk, parenting was very hands off, kids out all day from a young age, unlike now when mums coddle and spend lots of time doing quality time with their kids. Its simply not comparable. Never have women parented more than now. Mum and dad dropping a kid to school, driven to school till you leave at 19, all done for you, a million of quality activities parents facilitate
Which of course is exhausting so they end up using screens....

Pissoffyouall · 23/02/2025 01:26

SquashedSquid · 23/02/2025 00:05

They cost a fortune, we don't have the budget for them and if we did, they'd be destroyed within hours.

Shocking in this day and age we as a country cannot afford textbooks. thank you for answering.

SquashedSquid · 23/02/2025 01:35

Pissoffyouall · 23/02/2025 00:54

It's not safe at all for them to be in a mainstream classroom. What is your view on why such a high proportion of pupils have Sen? Is it closure of special schools in the past or something else?

No, it's not safe for them, the other children, or staff. We have one special school in our entire county now, which is a large county. It's due to be closed down. Unfortunately, the push by parents for the inclusion of all children, no matter the need, in mainstream school, means that inclusion is now causing exclusion. Many parents want to go back the other way, but now the provision just isn't there. Add to that lack of funding, lack of resources, teachers leaving in droves etc and everything is frankly, fucked.

I'm not sure what is causing the massive increase in SEN as a whole, though. I think neurodiverse people creating more neurodiverse people could be a factor, older parents, a rise in private diagnoses which may or may not be correct, the appeal of DLA to certain parents, parents looking for an excuse for their children's poor behaviour (caused by lack of parenting), a greater awareness of neurodiversity. There are just so many factors.

It saddens me so much. I don't know what the answer is. Money, I suppose, like everything else.

SquashedSquid · 23/02/2025 01:36

Pissoffyouall · 23/02/2025 01:26

Shocking in this day and age we as a country cannot afford textbooks. thank you for answering.

Isn't it just? I spend a huge chunk of my own salary on essentials like pencils, resources and glue sticks.

rainbowlou · 23/02/2025 02:08

Been in primary schools for nearly 20 years, the change in behaviour in the last 3-4 years is shocking.
I’m kicked and punched daily by 2 students (Mainstream KS1) not to mention a few others displaying rudeness to staff and disrespect of resources, refusal to learn and leaving the classroom when they choose.
The hoops we have to jump through to get the authorities to back us and get those children extra support/alternative provision is unbelievable.
It breaks my heart that other children have to witness this behaviour and that their parents believe we aren’t doing anything about it, we are pushing for help every single day.
I spend my lunch breaks and evenings job hunting for a completely different role as this isn’t sustainable at all.