Romanian dog rescue

[Preciousmemory]

I am in an awful situation that I can find no solution to. Please if any one could give me some advice.
i have rescued a Romanian dog which has turned out so badly.
He arrived 10 days ago and has serious problems I am not able to deal with so am asking if anyone can offer me advice.
The rescue have a policy that I must give him back to be rehomed but are not able to find anyone although it is a short time they are describing him on the advert as a dog that loves humans and children and dogs. A huge part of this is not right I have not tested him with a child but as for people he definitely does not like them , only me.
He attacks my husband in the morning, in the evening when he returns home from work and then randomly at any other time. The attacks are getting progressively worse. But yesterday he met my 80 year old tiny dad for the first time which I had also for the first time put a muzzle on him after 7 days of training with it.
The attack was so ferocious on my dad that he was foaming at the mouth leaping as high as his shoulders to grab him but because he was muzzled there was no damage. my dad immediately left. I despair to think what may have happened otherwise. My daughter turned up shortly after the same thing happened. I was thinking he maybe afraid of men but it seems not.
I have constantly tried to work with the Romanian Rescue which could take months for them to find a suitable home, the only option I have from them is to stick this traumatised dog into a kennel which will cause further damage to him, but I am not able to keep him in my home with this level of aggression.
Dog rescues are full up. I have contacted a few that specifically deal with dog aggression. I do not see how this poor dog can just be homed in a normal family environment as this will happen again. He is a large growing powerful dog that could cause serious damage to a person.
Thank you for reading , this is such an anxious problem that I see no solution to.
I am grateful for any advice possible .

@Preciousmemory You have no option but to be responsible and have him put to sleep.

What other option, realistically, is there?

He's a dangerous liability, and a risk to children, adults and people's pets.

You have no option but to get him PTS, the market for aggressive dogs is nil.

People lie.

I was looking for a rescued sighthound once and the dog's home had an advert pinned up that was a ''private rehome''

• I made an appointment to go and see this dog, but it was in a 1060's cul de sac and I called at the wrong house.

I said I'd called about the dog, and the woman who answered the door said ''oh that black dog? It's very badly behaved, it's always getting out and causing trouble''

She directed me to the correct house, and the dog didn't even come to the door- when the owner brought him in, there was no way that this was a dog that would ''click'' with our situation.

But this woman didn't once mention escaping or causing trouble with other dogs!

@Preciousmemory Your vet would most likely agree that this is a dangerous dog, and agree to euthanasia on safety grounds.

Vets don't generally euthanise healthy animals , so if she /he decided euthanasia is the best option, go with that.

The ''only'' human aggressive Greyhound I ever met was one who had been allegedly ''iffy'' as a puppy in Eire - A massive Blue male- extremely handsome, and he had won races in Eire, and later at ''flapping tracks'' so his Irish owners kept him as a pet- before they moved to UK..

They warned me to never go near him, and to not attempt to touch him and I didn't.

Once I walked into their kitchen to get something, and heard a low rumbling growl, so quietly backed out of the kitchen without looking to see where he was.

At least he had the good grace to ''warn'', he didn't fly at me.

They ran a hotel, and they had a couple of guests who ignored the growls who insisted on smoothing him - and they were bitten quite badly.

He was PTS because he became unsettled by visitors and staff in the hotel- but he was around 9 years then.

I was surprised, but the owner said ''He's not happy with constant visitors in his territory, nor is he safely rehomable...so he opted for euthanasia.

I still remember him, he was a fine looking dog - Blue is a rare colour for Greyhounds.

This just sounds so awful for you, op, and I think the advice from @WiddlinDiddlin is sound.

There will always be keyboard warriors who want to put the boot in. But you haven’t done anything wrong here at all.

It’s a nightmare to end up with an aggressive dog, having been in that position, and you don’t know what to do for the best / when to accept that this can’t be fixed, and there’s so much conflicting info - give it time / rehabilitate / PTS immediately / this is a dangerous animal / this is a scared animal that needs to adjust etc etc etc

I think taking it to the vet you trust is the right thing. Get the dog checked out for medical issues and a proper opinion on whether a behaviourist etc can help or whether the dog is so disturbed that PTS is kindest and safest. Then take it from there. Isolate the dog from people and animals until then. That’s what I would do anyway. Ditch / ignore the ‘rescue’ but be prepared to be bad mouthed on social media.

Before doing anything speak to the lawyer mentioned previously. A few years ago I’m sure I remember someone posted under legal about their taking on an elderly dog from a rescue that turned out to be ill. Dog had to be put down, and because the rescue hadn’t been notified (and agreed) they tried to sue the owner for around £400. It became very convoluted and difficult and I can’t remember the outcome, but it caused a huge amount of stress. Therefore I think @Preciousmemory needs to know the exact legal position so she’s not subject to such a scenario. Or if she is she has the answers.

It’s a horrid situation and I absolutely agree with everyone else that this dog needs to be euthanised.

The charity are the ones in the wrong here. I cannot see the op needs to contact them at all! The dog is not as described. They have off loaded a dangerous dog. Stuff the op rehoming. It’s absolutely not her fault and it’s nothing to do with the police. She should speak to a vet and get the job done. All this procrastination is just getting ridiculous. Get a decent greyhound.

As I say, I am so sorry you're going through this, it does rescue, dogs, the whole fucking shebang no good whatsoever and these 'rescues' carry on because frankly, its a good earner for someone, somewhere!

The 'attack from behind' MO. is a classic fear behaviour, someone facing the dog poses a much bigger threat. They turn away or aren't looking, the dog still feels threatened but now has a smidgen of confidence, just enough to have a pop.. and some will moderate themselves and it'll be a muzzle punch to the back of the leg (closed mouth, exactly as it sounds) and then some are all the way up the other end of the scale, jumping up to bite fully.

Very typical of dogs who have experienced aggression from humans or other dogs, they've learned when others are at a disadvantage (back turned) but are so scared that no longer feel any relief from someone turning their back (normal dog would find this a de-escalation of threat), they just see the opportunity to drive the 'threat' further away.

It typically does get worse before it gets better as the dog unpacks things that have been suppressed, grows in confidence in some respects but not others, starts to communicate more so behaviour gets 'louder' as it were... and how long that 'getting worse' period will be... no one can say!

And this is why rescue dogs should be in a well equipped foster or rescue centre to be fully assessed before they go out to homes.

The advice for your husband to give high value treats is also massively over simplified and done wrong, increases danger. Him having the high value food (assuming the dog is capable of seeing those as rewards) could increase arousal and stress.

If he is offering/luring the dog closer, which is most peoples natural instinct to do, then the dog is pressured (and any dog who has gone without food will feel that pressure enormously) to approach - food eaten = no distraction, too close to threat = bite!

At the point where I'd have someone else giving food (and that would not be now!)... I'd be asking them to throw treats past the dog, so that the dog is encouraged to move away, repeatedly reminded that moving away is good and is safe. It would produce feelings of relief (increased distance from threat) as well as positive reinforcement classically conditioning the idea 'this person is good news'. Scared dogs, even ones who bluff confidence, forget they can move away!

Im not telling you all this because I think you can or should attempt to fix this dog, just to help you understand a bit. Making tough decisions is always easier with a bit more information I think!

I don't know why you're putting street in quotations, foreign rescue dogs are usually off the streets, it's reality not a derogative. The only reason puppy farms exist is the rescue loonies followed the America model of pushing neutering/spaying towards everyone responsible enough to listen so there are very few one off litters from family pets belonging to nice people. The people who breed dogs now are "responsible" kc breeders with multiple bitches breeding horrible inbred to standard dogs, irresponsible people breeding trendy breeds for 2k+ and puppy farmers who see it as a business. Nice normal dogs have become so rare thanks to normal people spaying and neutering that it's become a viable business for unscrupulous people and cruelty follows.

Even if all of your rescue dogs were fine that's great for you, but there are plenty of people in this thread and all over the internet who have to make support groups because they got scammed by rescues into adopting a poor street dog who just needs love who then have to deal with roaming behaviour, all types of aggression and destructive behaviour in the home. Endorsing foreign rescues adds to this even if yours is different, not to mention all of the innocent people who have to suffer the effects of rescue dogs in their local park or neighbourhood.

You sound like a very good and experienced Dog Behaviourist, Widdlin. You always give good advice.

It's such a shame these dodgy rescues paint such glowing reports of the dogs they are selling to an unsuspecting public.

Their blurb is a bit contradictory, and is worded to tug at the heartstrings- with a ''cute'' picture of the dog {Photographer probably holding up a treat or whistling}- so it's easy to see how people like @Preciousmemory get sucked in.

The ''breed specific'' rescues in this country tend to have very experienced volunteers who know ''their'' breed inside out - and can tell after a few months in an experienced foster home, the type of home the dog needs, and they are a lot more realistic, and strict {as they should be}.

Yes, but the dog was ill, not dangerous. This one has attacked and under UK law if it attacks in or out of the home the OP is legally liable, especially if it is known behaviour. The police cannot do anything unless it attacks someone but if it does, the person taking the hit will not be the 'rescue charity' (using the term loosely here). I would say with its history of attacking family members OP should be covered.

I've not read all the replies but is he a mioritic type? (Huge with shaggy hair). If so, it explains a lot.

I would tell them Monday morning they find an arrangement in an hour or it's the vet. Don't let them bully you.
It's bullshit. You can legally put a dog to sleep if it's dangerous. And this dog is. You have no obligation to house it for an unknown period of time.

@Preciousmemory He probably wasn’t “Happy and loving” in Romania.

He was probably living outdoors in a compound, and that is nothing like a pet home .

The person who was chucking kibble on the floor ( which is how they seem to feed these dogs) wouldn’t know what he was like in
the tighter confines of a domestic house in the U.K.
Every dog they list has the same generic listing.

@Preciousmemory Google Romanian rescue aggressive- It’s a massive problem, and very similar situations to yours.

Really the whole overseas rescue thing seems to be extremely risky.

Not really if I had to say he looked like a type of dog it would be a thick dense coat of a Bernese mountain dog with Alsatian colouring . Very much a typical black and brown Romanian dog with a light brown face.

Carpathian Shepherd type?
The problem with a lot of the Romanian types is they are Shepherd types. But guarding, not herding. And they take this responsibility on in their house. So depending on what's in the dog, depends how big this issue is. There's nothing wrong with Romanian dogs on the whole but some of the breeds really aren't suited to pets. And people don't know what they are taking on.
I fostered a mio type as an emergency. The adopter said after 5 days it had to go as she was scared to live in her own home. It was played down to me that the people were the issue.
When he came he started out fine. He was always fine with me anyway. But after a few days started guarding me and bit my husband. Initially though I didn't realise this. They also tend to favour women. And if you read on some fb groups- it's really common for them to be like this. The good thing is- there'll be no burglar coming into your home and no one attacking you out on a walk. 🤣

I am told he lived with a rescuer for 4 months and from a video I was sent from the rescuer showing he was ok with men was her brother in the yard type place . All the dogs which was about 7 was leaping at him none showing aggression. I don’t think he has been in a house before.
it seems their listings are very generic with a fluffy paragraph about their nature and their story of where they were found however there was not really a story for my rescue just the normal fantastic with everything

He most definitely has attached himself to me and not attacked me just snarled when he arrived which would have been scary for him the attacking started on day two. There is definite guarding there. But on day ten meeting my dad and step daughter was different it was also towards females to

Jesus Christ stop importing these complete train wrecks of animals into our country - you must be barking ha ha makes my blood boil when so many need help here - it really really should be illegal!

Have you seen this thread?

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/the_doghouse/4971297-your-experiences-of-romanian-rescues

It is completely normal for a new dog (puppies do it too) to latch on to one person, typically a woman, as the primary care giver, to the exclusion of everyone else and often fear of everyone else.

But with a normal, well balanced, happy dog, they relax dramatically over the first few days and realise that the other people are also nice, providers of food and fun etc.

Any 'guarding' is about protecting a valuable resource and an indicator of a very fearful stressed dog, I stress this because people misread it and think the dog is confident when he is not! He fears (and rightly so really) losing the one thing that keeps him alive, fed, safe... to him, anyone else is a massive threat.

He may have been happy back in Romania, but that will have been a very different life and was before he spent who the fuck knows how long in a small cage in a van, on a plane, sat on the tarmac, in another van, in a car... etc etc! That sort of experience can be deeply traumatic, particularly for a dog who has only ever known relatively open, outdoor spaces.

The problem with these rescue dogs blah blah - the problem is they are farmed by the criminal gangs to flog to idiots in the West and to launder drug money - open your eyes

Travelling even for a very well socialised dog that has known nothing but love and care can be extremely stressful.

A young pet dog {1 yr old} had to move {Emigrate} from U.K to New Zealand - His owner bought him a wooden flight crate in UK that he slept in and associated with nice things months beforehand.

The 'safest' flights/stopovers for him were planned, stopping at the new and lovely Doha animal reception centre. {Vets on call 24 hrs a day}

The NZ quarantine kennels {small} collected him from the airport and took him for the mandatory 10 day quarantine period.

He was allowed a short daily visit from his owner as long as she was gowned up and had disposable foot covers.

Despite much careful planning, he did lose weight and suffered stress with the journey and especially quarantine as his entire routine was different..no one was in the empty kennel, despite the generous size.

He's settled now, but definitely had an effect on him- made him more clingy after the flight/ quarantine.

He now has private acreages to gallop in, so is very happy again.

The Smells of NZ and the sounds would be totally different, and Romanian dogs will find UK difficult - different language, too.

The ''Transport buses'' from Romania probably are nerve-racking - dogs fouling and peeing in their crates, for the three day journey, not to mention being motion sick, then handed over at some god forsaken lay-by or motorway service station..It must be extremely tough on the dogs.

God yes just read it all. So many worrying things. This really stuck with me as the rescue dog exactly this photos of very young fluffy pups sometimes a whole bundle of them in someone’s arms
Lastqueenofscotland2 · 28/12/2023 10:28

There are several which seem to have a conveniently consistent supply of very cute very fluffy puppies and I am convinced they are puppy farms

Hi Lola
I did try to message you but it would not go through are you able to message me if you see this message please
thank you

I have a UK rescue, he was so stressed on the 3 hour car journey home from the rehoming centre - I've never seen him anywhere near that stressed since and we've had a lot of vets visits and done training for separation issues. I can't imagine how difficult a dog finds it being brought internationally when it's not used to crates, cars, planes, people etc.