Nurseries cannot charge extra to access free hours: updated guidance

[MidnightPatrol]

The DfE has updated their guidance to say while nurseries may ask for voluntary contributions towards nappies, food etc - they may not have mandatory top up fees to access free hours. Councils will have the power to fine providers who are asking parents to pay extra.

news.sky.com/story/amp/parents-must-not-pay-mandatory-extra-charges-to-access-free-childcare-government-says-13313166

This is surely only going to reduce access to free hours for the majority, and push up costs for those paying for unfunded hours? And quite possibly, lead to nurseries closing.

Other consequences which we are already seeing:

• Minimum attendance to access free hours (4 days for the 30 hours or 3 days for 15). I am not clear if this would be banned under the guidance.
• Nurseries not offering the free hours
• Unfunded hours becoming more expensive to offset

YABU - nurseries should not be able to charge extra
YANBU - nurseries need to be able to cover their costs

Given the funding is not enough to provide places, what exactly do the government expect the nurseries to do?

My son's preschool were able to offer 15 hours with no top up fees but only because they only pay a token rent to the church which owns the hall they use. Then parents provide snacks, lunches, nappies, wipes etc. I just don't think it's going to be affordable for businesses who have higher premises costs.

You must have a very disorganised LA.

My nursery charge an extra £2 per funded hour, so this would not be allowed now?

They are putting up their fees, its greedy as they are a full nursery.

The council have to meet and set budgets every April if schools need more they get the first cut. Then settings with SEN it seems pretty common.

How long ago was this?

My DS nursery receive £78.40 in funding for a 10 hour day, then charge us £10 on top. We send our own nappies and wipes, the additional charge is for food.

On a non funded day we only pay £53.

So on days he has funded hours they receive £35 more for providing the same care.

This was never allowed. It sounds like it's going to be more enforced now, as top up fees seem to be very common from what I've seen on MN

They will just withdraw the offer of the funded hours.

It's almost like what they do with NHS dentists, the government will pay but make it deeply unappealing and not profitable, so they just withdraw the service and solely offer private.

Nurseries are profit seeking businesses and many will not be able to operate that model if this happens.

My childminder (in London) charges £11/h, but she gets £12.28/h from the funded hours (under 2). I only need to pay for any hours additional to the funded hours. It is a big saving for us

It's not been allowed since the last Labour government but it's not been policed.

They should give parents to option to provide own nappies and food and milk or pay for the nursery to provide them

Some of the most important jobs in society seem to be paid the least, our society only seems to value money, not actual worth.

I’ve been a childminder for many, many years. Ive had some wonderful experiences and cherished every little one who has spent time with me. I will be closing my doors as I just can’t make this work anymore. There no point in me not offering funding, who would choose to pay full rates when the magical ‘free’ hours are on offer elsewhere. My expenses are generally a third of my earnings, once you take the expenses away I’m left with very little. I knew I would never be rich being a childminder but I should be able to pay my bills and feed my family. I shouldn’t be responsible for the shortfall on funding, I shouldn’t be making up for the shortfall from my own pocket. I shouldn’t have to pay for the care of the children I look after.

who would choose to pay full rates when the magical ‘free’ hours are on offer elsewhere.

Are they/will they be on offer elsewhere though? People may not have a choice as more childcare providers close.

Also people might choose to pay the optional expenses. At our nursery, paying for food is optional. But if you don't pay, you have to send in your own. I think everyone pays because it's easier than sending in two meals. I imagine there's a fairly hefty mark-up on the food, which is fine and still within the rules as it is an optional fee.

I think this will be lead to a lot of nurseries closing. Come April they've also got the rise in minimum wage rate, lowering of NI threshold and increase in NI.
And Rachel from accounts claims the government are promoting growth ... certainly not in this sector.

Maybe the nursery will, as others close, just become fully private ... similar to the trend in dentists.

So when those on UC are being told to look for a job or increase their hours when the child is three they won't find space. I suspect more mums will have to stay at home.

Pretty much, certainly here the demand for childcare outstrips supply, so they'd still fill spaces not offering the hours.

I wouldn't be so sure that no one would, certainly post April when staffing costs rise some settings will close, others will cease to offer the funded hours; if your area is anything like mine people will be clamouring for any space. Also remember you can charge top ups for food and resources.

The system is outdated. The original 15hr funded were to ensure all children had access to a preschool space and be ready for school. It was about education not childcare. Now we are focused on childcare not education but the system hasn’t changed for the need for increasing childcare spaces as more families need both parents in work. 38 weeks was based on the school term for education. For childcare parents need a system that offers all year and 11 hours stretched doesn’t significantly help costs for most families.

The amount of admin that nurseries have to complete around giving the funding is significant. It would be much easier for the government to give each family a sum of money for each child to use for childcare and then everyone could choose the provision they want and nurseries would be free to charge what they need to run a sustainable business.

Eligibility being "term after" really doesn't work for 9mos either. Especially for the summer term. (So its age on 31st March that matters, until September). So some get the funding at 9 months, some at 14 months.. and its the Summer Born children who will miss out the most. (July/August).

Its a scheme that was cobbled together quickly by an outgoing administration and the incoming one doesn't seem to know how to tidy it up.

You are clearly clueless as to what the "running costs" are. No way would I be running a nursery.

I think as others have said, nurseries will become like NHS dentists. You might be entitled to it free on paper, but if you can't find someone to have you on, then you need to pay.

People who need this so they can work, would rather pay than have no childcare.

Haaaa yes! Running costs are insane utility bills, high business rates (we pay over 5k a month) staff, food (which used to be around 500 a week is now double), cleaners (4k a month) all the toys, activities, books, paper, paints, sand etc!) courses for staff (first aid etc) dbs checks, insurance, maintenance

and on and on the list goes.

Buggies on public transport in rush hour. It's a mystery why more working parents aren't clamouring for this practical solution to their childcare woes...