Would you pay more tax to boost defence spending

[trainermush]

Obviously we are now in a more precarious position & defence spending has been underfunded for some time. RR had just said we need to spend more money & she will but without breaking her fiscal rules,

"So we will stick to our fiscal rules. But recognising the priority of defence spending in the world that we live in today means that we will have to make difficult choices so that we can spend that money that is needed to keep our country safe."

Mulling it over & even though I think I pay enough tax I would pay more each month towards this (cut back in other areas) as opposed to labour cutting back on something else. I guess thinking about my dc & other loved ones has changed my mind somewhat now things appear more bleak. What do others think?
Conscription of young people terrifies me even though my dc are too young.

Are you secretly Nigel Farage?

Because Reform also had the policy of raiding the foreign aid budget to pay for increased defence spending!

No I'm not Nige and I wish I was tuppence behind him !!

But it seems Labour has taken a leaf out of their book.

Interesting,

Rather ironically the UK has increased defence spending because the US walked away from providing US taxpayer funded military support to European NATO allies who previously freeload on this and therefore could get away with spending less than 2%.

However by increasing UK defence spending to 2.7 and then 3% these same European NATO countries can now freeload off UK taxpayer funded defence and still not have to increase their defence budgets.

I wonder if in a few years the UK will also strop off, pulling away support from such countries unless they too increase their defence spending!

Lastly seriously what is Spain doing!!

Chart of defence spending

Maybe Spain think they are too far away to be impacted by any missiles that might come their way.(sarcasm)

Spain GPD per capita = $33k
UK ..............................= $49k

Spain was a fascist dictatorship just a few years ago... 45 years to be precise.

Europe wont be saved from the Russian hordes by Spain increasing their defence spend.

The Europeans will increase spend because they are on the front line eg Germany and Poland have been increasing spend long before the UK, just 7 months ago, the UK's main political parties both said there was no need to increase spend now, just vague promises to do so over the next 5 years... ... maybe...

People really are extremely stupid if they think spending less on foreign aid and climate change makes them safer.

The op is likely right they feel more removed than Poland. Not the next best reason anymore.

This is the problem I have with the decision. Starmer has robbed Peter to pay Paul because he's committed to not raising income tax. I don't think he had any option but to commit to spending more on defence, I understand why the decision was made, and I actually think he's stepped up and become a statesman in his handling of Europe and Trump. But I'd prefer to pay more tax so that all our underfunded public services can be improved - and pulling back on oversees aid is a quick 'win' but short sighted. I really hope it does end up being only a short term solution.

Indeed. If you look at the coloured map which shows defence spending as a percentage of GDP per country, it's all those bordering Russia that are dark red (i.e. nearing 5%). Those further removed (Spain, Italy) are paltry in comparison.

@Alexandra2001

"The Europeans will increase spend because they are on the front line eg Germany and Poland have been increasing spend long before the UK, just 7 months ago, the UK's main political parties both said there was no need to increase spend now, just vague promises to do so over the next 5 years... ... maybe..."

But looking at the chart the UK was previously spending significantly more (as a % of GDP) than Germany and states that are a lot closer to Russia such as Slovakia, Slovenia, Croatia and even Belgium.

My point is that previously these countries didn't need to spend much on defence (as a % of GDP) because they could freeload off US taxpayers paying for their defence.

Although the US is no longer willing to do this, the likes of Spain, Slovenia and Belgium (thanks to yesterday's by Kier Starmer) still don't have to increase their defence spending because they can now freeload off UK taxpayers paying for their defence instead, or more accurately coming from cuts in aid to poor foreign countries.

They should increase too I agree

Well, we can only look after our own interests, carping on about whether Slovenia etc pays a small amount more, is irrelevant...even if these very small economies paid 2.5% or not, it would not change the reality for Europe on the ground one iota.

We need larger economies to up their manufacturing base, that will take time, buildings, machinery and not least a skilled workforce.... we are years away from this...

This should have begun arguably after 2014, it should definitely have started after 2021.

Do you honestly think that Croatia is now thinking "oh we can build some more tourism infrastructure now because the UK has increased its spend by 6 billion over 2 years... phew we are safe!!"

These small states are at risk, not from invasion but from political interference from Russia... see Hungary, look at Serbia?

@Alexandra2001

"Do you honestly think that Croatia is now thinking "oh we can build some more tourism infrastructure now because the UK has increased its spend by 6 billion over 2 years... phew we are safe!!"

These small states are at risk, not from invasion but from political interference from Russia... see Hungary, look at Serbia?"

No but I do honestly think that Croatia if faced between a difficult political choice of say a long overdue increase in state pensions or increasing defence spending, they will be more inclined to spend it on pensions if they believe that they can rely on another NATO country to provide their defence for them.

I can guarantee that if Croatia was not in NATO then with Serbia just to the south of them they would be spending triple what they currently are.

I agree that for the majority of European states (big and small) the threat from Russia is not in the form of tanks crossing the border but in electoral interference and disruption of infrastructure such as sub sea power cables and internet cables etc.

I agree that for the majority of European states (big and small) the threat from Russia is not in the form of tanks crossing the border

You make a good point because it's not our threat either. If we up defence then why not others who face the same as us

Well, its a difficult one, Croatia have a few more tanks or an extra ship or two, will make zero difference to its own or Europes security.... on the other hand, not looking after pensioners could lead to far right/Russian backed parties gaining popularity....

@1dayatatime I wouldn't be surprised if Merz and others start to ask for more.

But equally you could advance the argument (not that I agree with it) that why should the UK be spending more on defence instead of say a Winter Fuel allowance for pensioners when Spain or Croatia or whoever gets to freeload off UK taxpayers boosting our NATO defence spending so that they can spend more on their state pensions, healthcare, education etc.

@EasternStandard

"You make a good point because it's not our threat either. If we up defence then why not others who face the same as us"

But logically why would they? There are fewer votes to be gained from boosting spending on defence than say boosting spending on healthcare, pensions or education.

The way NATO is set up of an attack on one NATO country being an attack on all NATO countries simply encourages countries to deprioritise defence spending and rely on other countries to provide your defence.

Sadly when push comes to shove and a real war breaks out such as with Ukraine, everyone makes great speeches of support but are not in a position to provide meaningful military aid.

Oh I see what you're saying. Poland is very high for good reason, Spain is not.

Proximity matters

But I do think there might be some pressuring in some way from Merz and others, maybe billed around nuclear security that France has

There may well be a way to get hogher commitment from the sunny further away countries

@EasternStandard

I fully agree that proximity matters but on that basis places like Slovenia, Slovakia and Romania should be spending more on defence (as a % of GDP) than the UK not less.

"There may well be a way to get hogher commitment from the sunny further away countries"

But logically why would the average Spanish, Slovenian or Belgian voter choose to spend more on defence than on say a new CT scanner for their hospital or better wages for teachers or pensioner benefits when they can simply rely on UK taxpayer funded defence.

The only way to get "tougher commitment" is to "do a Trump / JD Vance " and for the UK to say to the likes of Spain, Belgium or Slovenia no we won't come to your defence unless you start paying % of GDP on defence- but we have all seen how well that was received.

There is absolutely no logic for these countries taxpayers to spend more on defence when they can rely on other countries taxpayers to do it for them.

It strikes me that the majority of people seem to think that war won't happen, do we all have our eyes closed? Just because we don't want it to, doesn't mean that it won't. We therefore need to be prepared, and if that means I have to contribute a bit more to protect the country, then I will do it.

Comes back to the effects of a 0.2 or 3% increase, Croatia etc spending extra adds not one speck of difference to our or europe's security, the UK, France or Germany doing similar will do.

Spain is larger, but its still a relatively poor country, just 45 years ago was a fascist dictatorship, i would imagine there are genuine concerns about having a large military.

But one can only do what is best for the UK and a stronger military carries many benefits...

Maybe someone Merz? will do the same if they really aren't keen

Worked on us!

No, the government take enough already. UK gov already steals extracts over half my wages already: income tax, NI, council tax, 20% vat, fuel duty, green energy tax, booze duty etc etc.

Keep in mind WE ARE NOT AT WAR and we certainly don't want to declare war on the largest holder of nukes which has a first use doctrine in response to conventional attacks.