To think getting four A*s at A-level is pointless and might even be bad

[MeJuly]

If you look at the entry requirements for the top universities, the very top don't ask for four As but have interviews and tests to differentiate the top students. Below that none of them ask for four As and apart from Maths/FM none ask for four A-levels at all as far I know. AIBU to think that working so hard to get four A*s at A-level is actually a bad thing? It doesn't get you anything and is a huge amount of work at a sensitive time in your life.

(I think there might be one degree at Imperial that once asked someone for four A*s. That is really an exception though.)

Depends what you mean by "a bad thing"? Putting so much effort into it that you end up very stressed and dont have time for anything else, is pretty clearly a bad thing. But if you can get 4 A stars while pursuing broader interests, having plenty of downtime and not getting stressed then presumably that's a pretty good signal of ability. And, all other things being equal, better than getting lower grades.

your point being??

I don't think A-levels results tell you much on their own.

The people on my doctorate programme that struggled the most were the students who had obtained straight As at A-level. They just thought working harder and harder and memorising more and more was the answer. Whereas academics beyond A-level, and certainly beyond undergrad level, requires more natural intellect, abstract thought and creativity.

A's, and even A*'s at GCSE and A-level can be obtained by the most people with the right parental support (in some cases, 'pushing'), sometimes tutors, a little privilege and a lot of effort. That's fantastic news if the person themself wants to go into a career where those A-levels and the effort involved paid off.

Personally, for my children, we will think about what THEY want in their future, what grades they need, how much they enjoy studying etc.. and go from there. I will always reassure them, that they are smart cookies! Just because someone else gets a higher grade doesn't mean they r more intelligent!

I think if you get 4 As because you LOVE studying, find learning naturally easy, didn't need tutors or small class sizes to give you a hand up, and will go on to continue studying and reading about the subject matter for fun in your free time after exams, then crack on! Those 4 A's are worth it!!

If however, those 4 A*s are the results of extra help, tutors, parental pushing, too much hard work, you didn't enjoy studying and hate learning now you've completed those A-levels, then you could question why you did it and whether it was worth it!

That's interesting. Similarly I got four As at A level before A stars and I was used to getting top marks at school. I struggled to get a 2:1 and wondered how some of my friends got 1sts. Uni is completely different learning environment and skills needed to sixth form. I needed ABB to get in uni. 30 years later I'm starting to understand how life works and how to achieve success. Taken a while! I also suspect I am neurodivergent.

Although you may have wanted a better degree result, a 2:2 is not a bad one. I have 4 A Levels at grade A and a 2:2 in a competitive, difficult subject. I wanted to challenge myself with my degree. It was challenging, I haven't pursued it as a career although I do work in a field where it is useful. I also discovered I wasn't cut out for a career in my degree subject. Had I got a 2:1 I think I would have been encouraged to pursue the career and been deeply unhappy. Things happen for a reason.

I see what you mean OP. I suppose it depends on the pupil.
I was very studious in 6th form. We were only allowed to do 3 A levels, and there was no such thing as A* then. My uni offer was 3 Bs, but I worked really hard and got 3 As. Went to uni and was lazy. I was just worn out with 2 solid years of hard graft, and I wanted to have some fun. My course involved multiple exams throughout the whole 5 years, and I had to re-do a couple of them. I’m sure that wouldn’t have happened had I not burned myself out at A level.

DS got 4 A*s he didn't work 18 hours a day ( nothing like) he played football, saw his mates, went to parties- normal 18yo stuff.

He is at Oxbridge on course for a first he still doesn't work all that hard. If you are very gifted ( his full scale IQ was measured at >160) it's not difficult.

Looking at our 6th formers, they’re expected to support younger students in class, do extra curricular/present/support eg Parents’ Evenings, accompany trips, coach etc. I have told my current Year 11s that doing 4 A levels is not ideal, they will find themselves extremely short of time and might be better off completing eg an EPQ, which demonstrates independent research.

I’ve never seen a uni course requiring 4 A levels. Our students tend to do Sports/Language Leaders, Duke of Edinburgh Gold. I’ve watched an awful lot of advice re A levels recently as my form is Year 11 and I haven’t seen any advice recommending taking 4. I think some of our very academic students may consider 4.

This sounds like the sort of argument ds uses when he wants an excuse for not working.

OP. It may not matter, but if you don't revise, then you may find that hoped for A* doesn't slip to an A, but to a B. So a good idea to try and do as much as you can.

That’s very high compared to most children. I recently went through 180 students’ records to sift out those who wouldn’t be suitable (academically) for a certain course. Very few would cope with what your ds is doing/has done. Congrats to him for being able to keep up the usual teenage stuff.

I think four A stars is incredibly hard work even for very bright students (I’ve worked with many). I think a person’s life has to be reasonably happy even when working hard for the future. For some people, working hard enough to get these grades will feel pretty unbearable. It is also a ticket to more hard work and more stress.

Yes, but that can happen to anyone - as you say the change in learning environment is huge. I nearly dropped out in the first year, it was so much harder the A levels (which I didn’t do amazingly in) and so much self motivation and self-led learning needed. But I did get there in the end.

If was interviewing someone I would definitely take into account the number of A Levels and their predicted grades alongside the interview and tests when deciding whether to offer a place, even if the offer was only based on 3 A Levels in the end. They generally can't give out offers for four A Levels because many applicants would only be taking three, and it would hardly be fair to raise the entry requirements for someone just because they had taken in the challenge of doing an extra A Level.

@Wintersoltice Surely if you know that universities don't ask for 4 A levels for reasons of fairness as not all schools allow it, then it would be equally as unfair for prospective employers to be looking at that. I would have thought the grades they got and the outcome of their degree would tell you all you'd need to know.

DS applied for Computer Science it was a cutthroat process. Even though the offers were for three ALevels, with offers about Astar AA, anecdotally they only give offers (at the top institutions) to those with all AStars, and won’t look at you without FMaths (unless your school doesn’t offer it). So, you don’t ’need’ to get 4 AStars but you won’t get an offer without it.

My DD is doing 4, and I did advise against it, but she got 12 x grade 9 so I know she will do well.

Depends on whether you want the breadth of knowledge, mine both have 4, A's and a*'s

We're all different. Some people have a real passion for an area of academia, and will actively enjoy studying it in-depth. Some will do things out of a love of "doing well", some for a specific future goal (eg will do things that look good on uni applications, rather than for pleasure). Some will do 4 A levels because they feel it's expected of them, or because they see themselves as "the clever one". I think that's a bit of a shame, as they'd probably be happier by doing 3 and exploring other interests. Universities don't just look at exam results, school orchestra, D of E awards...

For the most able, who can get 4 top grades, no it's not pointless.

Universities state a minimum, but when competition is fierce, they often take those who have more.

I got 5 As at A-level (before A* existed). I wanted to do a sixth, but the school did cautiously advise against this (though note that they would have allowed it).

On my very competitive university course, the vast majority had done 4 or more A-levels.

I also loved learning, and found 5 A-levels a bit of a doddle. I didn't even go to school that much in upper sixth as it became clear I could get the top grades without needing too.

I got the top grades in my sixth form, and amongst the highest in the country.

This isn't a post to boast, but just illustrating that for some, getting 4 or more A-levels is not difficult, and should not be discouraged.

There's nothing inherently bad about having 4 A-levels at top grades. So long as someone isn't making themselves ill in the process or reducing their life to those qualifications, why wouldn't people want to aim to get the best qualifications they can, to reflect their interests, ability and hard work?

That's silly. It's not bad to go above what you need, unless of course it impacts mental health.

I did 4 A levels (a long time ago now). A lot of people told me it was a mistake but all I know is that good education like that never comes free again. I'd have to pay through the nose to get that kind of education as a postgraduate.

Even after all these years I use some of the knowledge/understanding from those A levels (some which were foundational to my degree, and another which was a foreign language). And to be honest, without being too smug, I set my goal, worked hard, trusted myself and achieved it - I honestly think that's a good place to start higher education. I've never coasted along and I don't think playing it safe is necessarily a good long term mentality.

Employers very often look back to A levels if all graduates are much of a muchness.

Oh, I just wanted to show off