To think getting four A*s at A-level is pointless and might even be bad

[MeJuly]

If you look at the entry requirements for the top universities, the very top don't ask for four As but have interviews and tests to differentiate the top students. Below that none of them ask for four As and apart from Maths/FM none ask for four A-levels at all as far I know. AIBU to think that working so hard to get four A*s at A-level is actually a bad thing? It doesn't get you anything and is a huge amount of work at a sensitive time in your life.

(I think there might be one degree at Imperial that once asked someone for four A*s. That is really an exception though.)

I did 4 A levels, partly because I wasn't entirely sure of what to do next. (Maths, physics, chemistry and biology). I got AABB (before A* grade added).

I think it was worthwhile for me. Could I have got 3As? Maybe... I will never know. But I am happy with the decision.

Yes but the content covered in FM is really interesting (or so ds tells me - you couldn't pay me to do it) It's not just about minimum entry grades, it's about knowledge and challenging yourself. It's about being armed for your degree with more in your back pocket.

Not just more in your back pocket - when I did it (Maths + Further Maths -> Maths degree), I'd already covered almost all of the first year of the university course.

Of course, this could be a bad thing - I kind of coasted my first year, and then hit the wall in the second year.

This is the second post today urging people not to try to excel in their degree, and now in their A levels.

Is someone dreading competition?

My son is doing his A'levels this year.
He was given the option of doing 4 with the proviso that if he or his teachers felt it was too much then he would drop one.
He's carried on doing all 4 as he finds it easy and TBH appears to do no work but is excelling in practise exams.
So no, I don't think he's been hindered at all

ntmdino FM is a different story. I didn't really mean to include that in my AIBU.

Allthegoodnamesarechosen GCSEs next...

One of mine's at Oxbridge on 3 grade As. He worked hard but also had enough time for other interests and a reasonable amount of hanging out w friends. Lack of A level number 4 certainly hasn't harmed him.

He's doing computer science so hopefully he won't coast into a brick wall. 😬😁

Obviously it's different with STEM subjects and a lot more common to do 4, especially if one is FM.

I teach an essay-based A level and will never forget the student years ago who made a last minute decision to take my subject as her 4th choice (all similar subjects) and then she and her parents blamed me via email when she got 1 A star, 1 A and 2 Bs as it meant she did not get her first choice course. My subject had been her weakest throughout and apparently I had talked her into taking it - I hadn't, I had just said she was capable and I'd love to have her when she asked.

It was the wrong choice for her but every case will be different. Some students will value breadth and 'keeping doors open,' others will know they need the A stars. It's important that they find out what is needed as soon as possible in Y12 and act accordingly.

DD is applying to Trinity Dublin and needs 4 Alevels. Even with the weighting she gets from a maths alevel and an MFL, she will only get enough points with 4.

As it is she adores all four subjects and could not have chosen between them to do three.

Similar tale here. I don’t have a diagnosis, but was a top performer at A level, didn’t get the oxbridge place I so badly wanted. Went to second choice uni and fell apart. Managed a 2.i but that’s in part down to an incredibly strong dissertation. I later did a PhD and an MBA. I think for me it was the massive upheaval and also that university was incredibly prescriptive. The other quals were much more independent and I excelled.

I was thinking the same thing.

My understanding was that because many schools/ Sixth Form colleges don't cater for/ offer four A levels , then Universities don't (can't?) formally require them

This is a good point. If there is any reason that you might want to study abroad, 4 A Levels could be a good thing.
If you were certain you wanted to stay in the UK, then three A stars is better than losing one of those stars for an extra (say) B.
Starting with four and seeing how it goes seems like a good idea to me.

Indeed...it's about making the most of the things that went wrong for me. In interviews these days, I tend to be the one that brings up the gulf between my school and university results - it gives me an opportunity to be bluntly honest about what happened without offering excuses, and I've found that employers tend to respond well to that approach (I've never come away from an interview without progressing to the next stage).

In recent years it's opened the door to have a frank chat about my diagnosis too - rather than making a big issue of it up front.

With all of that said...I would much rather have done well at university and not had to do all of that ;)

Mine got a top result in every exam he’s ever taken.

plus got into Oxbridge. Where he was top.

🤷‍♀️😆

Why would getting top grades be bad ?

I think I get what you are saying - I’ve discouraged both of mine from doing 4 A Levels. It just adds pressure. You’d think that if the entrance requirement is AstarAstarA/A*BB that having a 4th A Level would give you some slack (Ie AAAB/AABB at least). But as far as I can see, they just ask for an additional A in the 4th subject. Why take that on board when, in real life 3 good A Levels and some work experience/degree subject related hobbies is more valuable?

It’s not about ‘opting for mediocrity’, as some PPs comment, it’s about understanding the game and focusing on excelling where it matters. A 4th A Level isn’t where it matters.

ETA - understanding how the game is played and doing that efficiently and effectively is also both a lifeskill and something employers look for, btw…

I think the ideal is you do your best, but don't work so hard it affects you negatively.

If you could get five A stars working hard, where's the harm in doing four?

If three A grades is your realistic high mark, doing four subjects is very risky, either academically or emotionally, or both.

For many the fourth subject is unnecessary, in those circumstances there's no purpose in doing it, unless there's enjoyment. For others four subjects keeps options open for later.

Tldr: everyone is different.

I had always assumed people needed the stars because there has been massive grade inflation in the assessment/marking of A Level work. From what I've observed, people now get "ordinary" A grades for work that would have merited a B, at best, 40 years ago.

I agree, it doesnt help you get a uni place. It may even hinder you.

But I've voted yabu because getting into uni is not the only measure of success.

And a A* a level is never 'pointless'.

Well I started a levels, got bored of them. Went and did a btec in music. Then a HND in business at a lower grade uni, then switched to complete my degree in a higher grade uni. Then mid 20s did a law conversion course. And not one company had ever asked to see my a level or btec certificates. So my take is that none of it really matters. I actually went into marketing in the end. But one of my ex classmates from my law conversion course who also did not graduate from a top uni has just made partner at a glibal law firm. So I think it is the goal that is important and there are many ways to get there.

Never meant anything to me when it came to my degree or workplace. The only thing they ever wanted to know is GCSE A*-C no one ever cared about A levels and what I got only that I passed. Interviews and how you present yourself much more important. And that's was my strength.
I got 2:1 at uni and A levels A-C and I managed to be offered the top position out of 100 applicants at Kings college hospital. They didn't care about any of it. Just that I passed and i interviewed the best.

I don't think you'd be able to fill your average graduate programme just with firsts as so few are given out.