To hate my mom because she was controlled by my dad

[TheDaringOchreQuail]

Trying to simplify this. All my life it was about him and treading on eggshells to please him. She always has to be the victim too.
he is basically like a dictator. Everything revolves around him and his needs. I feel so much hate for her. She didn’t put me first. She never spent time with me or listened to me. Even now, as he controls the money she has to pretend that I ordered food when she was the one who paid for it but he can’t know, please say this isn’t normal?!

Yes agree with @BlueSilverCats. The OP will be better off not engaging with her mother and getting some therapy I think.

Her mother is still trying to engage her in this awful abusive and controlling dynamic. She does not have to participate in it.

The mother is a victim AND a victimizer. That is the consequence of staying with such a man.

Doing nothing to stop abuse or control does not mean you have not participated in that control or abuse. The mother is still using her daughter as a shield. Who knows what else happened?

We had the opposite. My dad enabled my controlling and abusive mother. It took me years (and therapy) to realise that he actually wasn't the good guy I thought he was. I loved him and had a good relationship with him and I still love his memory but it's tempered by the knowledge that he let us down.

She can't see it as abuse, but you can.

So why would you hate an abused person.

She's probably been mentally ground down and may never see ut as abuse.

All you can do be there for her, in the slim hope she does see it one day.

Looks like her mum is the lucky one then. I bet she’s so grateful that she’s hated whilst her abusing husband gets to bear no responsibility for what HE did.

As usual, it’s women being blamed for the shitty behaviour of men. As has been said, it’s complete misogyny.

Abused people aren't magically 'good', they're just people. You can sympathise with someone while also considering them a complete idiot, especially if you have a front row seat to their behaviour.

@NorthernGirl1981 would you be accusing OP of misogyny if her father had beaten her, or sexually abused her and her mum knew and did nothing and OP hated her for that?

Same, but I did resent my father and we ended up having a very superficial relationship . I wonder if that makes me a victim blamer and a misandrist?

Yeah…..because beating up and sexually abusing children is exactly on par with having to walk on egg shells (OP’s words). What a ridiculous comparison. And if a woman did allow that to happen to her child then of course it would be a whole different scenario and I would fully expect any child to hate their mother for it.

But that wasn’t what was happening and my guess is that the mother was terrified of her husband and clearly still is. I don’t know how old the OP is, but back in the generation of her youth it may be that women were fully expected to put up with abusive husbands. Women back then may not have had the same options as what women have now……and even if this day and age some women still feel completely trapped or that the abuse is normal, or that it’s what they deserve.

For a lot of mentally/emotionally abused women it’s never as easy as “just leave him” especially when children are involved.

How many posts do we see on this forum, week after week, from women who are in abusive relationships but are too scared to leave? Or don’t have the means to leave? Or don’t want to leave because they don’t want to risk the father having access to their child without them (the mother) being around to make sure they’re safe?

I understand that OP is angry about the childhood she hadn’t ensure, but to say she HATES her mother who was clearly the victim of domestic abuse? And who still is?

I agree with everyone who has suggested that OP would benefit from some therapy to talk all this through and unpick it with a professional.

You seem very keen to minimise the OP's experiences @NorthernGirl1981 . Sounds like you have some issues that might benefit from a bit of therapy too.

Parents who don't protect their children from abuse will have to face those children's judgement one day. Adult victims of abuse may have few good choices but their children have none whatsoever. And it devalues the efforts and sacrifices many women do make to protect their children and leave abusive relationships to pretend its utterly impossible or unrealistic to do so.

Yes agree. @NorthernGirl1981 your post makes no logical sense to me.

If a woman just tolerates and expects her children to tolerate an abusive man, that is more reasonable? Should it not be easier to leave such a man rather than the violent abuser or sexual abuser?

What are you on about? Did you even read the OP? She talks about him being a dictator, everything being driven by his moods, everyone walking on eggshells.

To blame OP’s mum for his behaviour is a ridiculous reach, come on now.

Yes, it absolutely should be easier to leave an abusive man.

But sadly, until we live in a society that enables women to leave abusive relationship then I fear that many, many children are sadly going to have childhoods like OPs. And I’m absolutely not saying that’s ok.

I didn’t mean to minimise OP’s childhood either, or what she had to put up with and of course I sympathise, but I also think the mother deserves a bit of sympathy too for the awful situation she was, and still is trapped in.

The op's father is responsible for his behaviour,, the op's mother is responsible for her behaviour

They are also each responsible for their own decisions And the fact their decisions affected the op

@NorthernGirl1981

Ah so there we have it. The real reasoning behind this narrative of OP being an awful,selfish woman hater.... it wasn't that bad.

It was "just" emotional abuse. It was "just" control.

Abuse is abuse and OP had every right to feel angry and hatred, just as any other survivor of childhood abuse.

I said nothing of the sort and you know it.

Anyhow, you’re not going to change my mind and I’m not going to change your mind, and that’s fine as everyone has different opinions. You will see fault in what I say and I will see fault in things you say but that’s no reason to argue with each other. There is absolute zero point in this becoming a de-railing bicker so let’s just leave it here.

I agree with this, @NorthernGirl1981. I do wonder whether it is easier for the OP to 'hate' her mum than her dad, simply because of fear - she is scared of her dad but not of her mum. I'm not saying it is right, but maybe it goes towards explaining it. That is why I took the time to try to explain to @TheDaringOchreQuail how difficult it is for women to leave situations like this - the practical, emotional and psychological way women end up trapped - in the hopes that she will begin to understand and empathise with her mum's position and struggles.

And yes, as a society, we should make it much easier for women to leave abusive marriages/partners.

Obviously. Nowhere did I say they were.

Ironically, when I posted trying to get my head around my abusive and neglectful mum , I had tens of posters asking "what about your dad? Why aren't you blaming him?".

For many years I was scared of my husband. I even felt I would have to have his permission before I could divorce. There was coercive control but no physical abuse. It was very subversive as it was only me he lost his temper with when we were alone.

Over the years he made me think it was my whole personality at fault, nothing was ever his fault. Nothing I did was normal and that no one could help or see things my way. I was desperately unhappy but couldn’t tell anybody.

I finally divorced but it was very difficult to do that as I spent all my energies trying not to anger him.

I understand it must be difficult for you and it really depends on what your mother really thinks. She may not be able to admit to anything, as she may feel she would have to actually leave him, or stand up to him. It’s crazy how one person can grind another down. It may be fear or not. She may believe there is no solution which is why she does nothing about it.

I think you should try therapy if you can to try and understand the situation for your own benefit. Such strong emotions are not healthy for your own mental wellbeing.

Someone asked at what stage we should expect a woman to leave?

My list just off the top of my head:

• When she is a woman who hasn't grown up in an abusive family and therefore been groomed to expect abuse as normal.
• When she hasn't been brought up to be a religious maniac who thinks it would be a sin, punished eternally in hell, if she leaves her marriage.
• When she is not part of a community and family network who have all been brought up in the same way and for whom divorce is utterly incomprehensible.
• When she is not a foreigner from a despised group and already feels an outsider/ intruder in the country she lives in and her abuser gives her some protection from that outsider status.
• When she isn't constantly told that if she leaves, she and her children will be despised as broken families.
• When the reward for leaving an abuser isn't grinding poverty, but a realistic expectation that she will be able to earn a living while parenting on her own.
• When society stops ensuring that the children of single parents have worse outcomes in education, health, relationships etc., by refusing to support single parents financially (we know it's just poverty that causes the worse outcomes, if your single parent is rich, outcomes are the same as for children of two parent families).
• When the law doesn't allow her abuser to continue his abuse via his contact with his children, his financial support of his children or lawfare.
• When society despises and punishes men who abuse women more than it despises and punishes women who leave the fathers of their children.

Off the top of my head, there may be other things to add to that list. But as long as these things do exist, we have to accept that Stockholm syndrome and other psychological factors set some people up from the very start of their lives, to have no chance whatsoever, of being able to have healthy, normal, loving, functional relationships. Requiring women to be some kind of Amazonian superheroes who can transcend all the factors that have conspired to make them into abuser enablers and victims, is not just unrealistic but cruel. I'm not saying no woman can ever transcend these terrible limitations - it's astonishing how heroic so many women are - but let's not expect everyone to be a hero. Let's just try and work towards a society where that sort of superhero courage isn't necessary.

So when a women is terrbile a man is still to blame? I am not personally asking you that question

Oh and something else (sorry on a rant now).

People who are demanding from the OP what she is doing to help her mother escape now:

1. She is not responsible for her mother's escape. It's utterly unreasonable to expect her to re-involve herself in the drama that has already damaged her and will continue to do so until she gets some kind of emotional and psychological distance from it.

1. Even if she wanted to, she cannot help her mother escape unless her mother is psychologically able to consider escaping. It's like asking someone what they are doing to stop an alcoholic drinking. Most people understand that it's totally unreasonable to expect anyone to take responsibility for someone else's drinking. It's also unreasonable to expect anyone to take responsibility for someone else's psychological state. I can't believe people are suggesting this, it's bizarre.

This. Nothingness is not absolving an abusive parent.

How very true.
It sounds like one way or another you know lots about these situations!