To hate my mom because she was controlled by my dad

[TheDaringOchreQuail]

Trying to simplify this. All my life it was about him and treading on eggshells to please him. She always has to be the victim too.
he is basically like a dictator. Everything revolves around him and his needs. I feel so much hate for her. She didn’t put me first. She never spent time with me or listened to me. Even now, as he controls the money she has to pretend that I ordered food when she was the one who paid for it but he can’t know, please say this isn’t normal?!

This reads as making excuses for the abuser while blaming the abuse victim. Your dad knows, all abusers do they just don't care.

Don’t get me wrong I have zero feelings towards him, I feel nothing.

Solidarity here too. As the years went on, it became clear that my mother's anxiety over my father's needs/moods felt almost more emotionally manipulative as my father's moods which he got over after a while without any visible impact on his health Vs her carrying on with anxiety attacks etc. Then, there was stuff she got super anxious/controlling over that he didn't care about and I wondered how much of her saying "because your dad wouldn't like it and I'd get into trouble" was actually HER stuff, but an easy/lazy way to impose her will on us without having to have an argument, explain, etc.

I think the answer to that is in your opening post.

You say you hate your mum for not putting you first, but she is in an abusive relationship. You don’t say how old you are, but I’m assuming she’s been subjected to years of this treatment. It’s ok to be angry at her, but there comes a point where you need to at least try and understand - not necessarily forgive - that it isn’t all her fault, because she probably never realised it was abuse - most people will assume abuse is only ever physical, but it’s taken decades to change the publics perception that it isn’t just that.

Does it matter? They had equal responsibilities to put their child first. Equal. And she failed miserably. So op isn't UR to feel the way she does.

Honestly and I hate him and wouldn’t want to stick up for him in any way, I honestly think that’s just how he is and always was.

OP I would encourage you to see a therapist re your feelings. Your mother is culpable for what she failed to do, and her dysfunction in trying to blame you.

She is likely a weak person. How it happened or her relationship with your father is not your responsibility. She would probably like it to be. Get away from her

Do you think mentally well people with good self-esteem and boundaries end up in this relationship dynamic? It is likely that your mum has a lot of internalised self-hatred. I grew up in a similar dynamic and I do have sympathy but your mindset is not healthy or fair on your mum.

Have you any siblings @TheDaringOchreQuail If you have, what’s their take on it? Could you help your mother to leave or is that a complete no-no?

I think it's really hard for people who didn't grow up in that situation to empathise.

I also grew up in an abusive household and my mum would never have left, as it is my dad left HER when my younger sibling turned 18. She just prioritised being married and having a family unit above everything else. Divorce is shameful apparently.

I have never forgiven her for telling me we would be leaving and then changing her mind and telling me not to say anything to dad.

I do think mothers are held to a higher standard. Your mum is supposed to be your safe space. And now that I am a mother I look back at what we went through with more horror than anger.

I think there's also an element of needing to mourn the childhood/life you could have had etc.

It's really tough

YANBU. But you are not being rational and that's fine too.

You need to go to counselling so that you can get some distance from your mum's failure to protect you as well as your dad's coercive control.

I don't know what to advise you, very similar to you I can't stand my mum but at the same time recognise that she too was a victim with very few choices. So I know it's not fair to blame her for not being able to protect her children from abuse that she couldn't protect herself from. I can't ever be close to her though, or have a normal relationship with her.

Sometimes, there are no solutions to a problem. When you can accept that there will never be a solution, you can distance yourself from the problem and get on with the good things in your life.

It sounds like you feel similarly to my sister @TheDaringOchreQuail our father was an abusive alcoholic and she holds our Mother responsible whilst claiming that our dad couldn't help being the way he was.

I can't understand this at all if I'm honest and me and sister don't discuss this stuff any more as we just argue when we try to. I think that our mum was just doing her best to raise us solo with little money and support whereas she thinks that our mum should've done something about our dad's behaviour.

I'm sure my post isn't massively helpful but I just wanted to say that your pov isn't unusual. And that being the child of an abusive parent sticks with you for life in many ways.

You're entitled to feel how you feel. Sure, the argument could be made that she was abused, coerced, etc., but ultimately she was the parent and you were a child and she badly failed you. You don't have to forgive her for that. However both of your parents are to blame, not just your mother.

Interesting, similar dynamic for me growing up but I always just feel sorry for my mother.

Actually in therapy it was suggested that I should put more blame on her for not removing us from the situation, but he had such a grip over her and totally created her reality in a way.

He's dead now and she still won't accept that his abuse affected us so we just don't talk about it and try to enjoy our time together.

Why do you hold your mother to a higher standard than your father?

I understand OP, a mother staying with an abusive partner is abusive towards her kids imo. My mother was the same and I think she enjoyed being under his thumb so she could play the victim, everyone will say she's powerless and under some abuse spell but alot of women are just spineless and can't be bothered to change things for their kids. If you read up on "waif" type mothers you might find things that ring true.

Do you not honestly think that she was a) just trying to survive and b) putting you first by keeping the peace? I agree you should talk to someone, it’s scary how our brains can frame things- you hate she’s always a victim but she has actually always been a victim just because she chose to be with the wrong man!!

I agree you should talk to someone, it’s scary how our brains can frame things-

I don’t think it’s scary, I think it’s a very understandable feeling and not an altogether uncommon one. Especially considering OP’s basic needs were neglected at the same time. Not sure if you missed the part about her mum never spending time with her or listening to her. How horribly isolating for a child.

Thing is, those of us who have been through this know we're not being rational of fair. But we experience it the way we experience it. It's absolutely true that it was much harder for women in those days to strike out on their own than it is now. Now it would be inexcusable to not leave, then it was different. But the mother is the person who above all is supposed to protect you. The failure of a mother to prioritise her children over a man is at some really primal level really hard to forgive, whatever the justifications were.

If there's a cautionary tale here for people who feel they can and should paper over the cracks of a bad marriage because they are financially comfortable or just to "not rock the boat": your children will never forgive you if you don't take that brave act to put them first when you need to. It's harsh but true. No financial comfort is worth this.

And it should underline how disastrous it is for women to rely on men for money.

@TheDaringOchreQuail

Your feelings are your own, and you're entitled to them. But try to understand that this hatred you have for your mum is not healthy and is holding you back from being completely happy.

The dynamics of your parent's relationship were in place long before you were born. Your dad started conditioning your mum to accept his abuse even before they were married. So think about that. If you're an adult and out of the house, that means it's been going on for decades. Decades. Decades in which she was subjected to 'punishment' if she didn't 'go with the programme'. And sometimes the fear of emotional abuse can be worse than the fear of physical abuse.

If you read up on the 'boiled frog' analogy you'll understand that this happened so slowly and insidiously that she didn't even know it was happening. 'Walking on eggshells' and all that goes with it is normal' to her. Even as she begs you to 'cover for her' it's normal to her. And when she says "It's just the way Dad is" she isn't excusing his 'bad behaviour', she truly believes it's no difference than saying "Dad doesn't like carrots". And in her head, you 'catering' to his abuse is no different than her feeling that you shouldn't give your dad carrots.

I know you're thinking "But she could leave" to all of this. And I understand. But it's not as simple as just walking away. She has been psychologically damaged by him and it's been going on for decades. She's as held fast by her mental 'chains' as if they were solid iron. And the more you try to argue with her 'to free her', the closer she'll hold those chains to herself. Because it's all she knows. It's all she has.

If you really want to help your mum (and I hope you do), then you'll get counseling to really understand how emotional abuse 'works' and to try to put your feeling about this, and about her, into a healthier place in your own mind. Once you do this, you may actually be in a position to help her, if that time ever comes. I'm not saying it ever will, but wouldn't it be nice to be ready, if it does?

Where was she to go? I hear you it's terrible growing up in an abusive or toxic household, your mum. sound entrenched in a terrible marraige your dad did this, I mean she is so scared of him she couldn't say she bought a takeaway! I do think you might need some counselling to manage what has happened to you.

Your poor mum. She's living in an awful marriage and now you're saying you hate her. I feel very sorry for her.

But you choose to victim blame her anyway? Abuse really fucks with your head, some people never see it.

My group at Women's Aid therapy had a mix of physical, psychological, financial and sexual abuse survivors. Some women had experienced both psychological and physical abuse. They said that physical abuse was much easier to cope with as once the battering was done, the cuts and bruises healed. The psychological abuse was far worse and given a choice, they would prefer a beating. Do not underestimate the torment your mother lives in every single day. Have some compassion and be thankful you could leave.

Your mum is not the one to blame. Perhaps it feels safer to blame her because he’s the one you’re afraid of, but it isn’t her fault. Now you’re an adult and living away from home, what are you doing to protect her?

Oh bless you. I'm an ex police officer with a specialist professional interest in domestic abuse. I am NOT a psychologist, but I would like to reassure you that what you're feeling is very common.

It's also common among children who experience abuse - they will sometimes have a 'better' relationship with the abusive parent than the non-abusive parent. (Worth pointing out that today we at least recognise that being exposed to domestic abuse between parents means children are automatically victims, too, even if not the intended target.)

I think it's because some victims see the abusive parent is 'just like that'; it's accepted as part of their character. Whereas the non-abusive parent is seen as someone who can modify their behaviour (because they do quite often in order to 'manage' the abusive parent). Therefore there is a greater sense of betrayal because it's seen as though that parent 'could' have done something but 'chose' not to. They've chosen the abusive parent over their own child is how it feels emotionally, even if the rational brain knows it's not that simple. That level of rejection is devastating.

Your mum is a victim. Coercive control is a feature of all domestic abuse, whether physical or not, and it can really alter someone's behaviour and sense of normality. I've seen many mothers over the years who once out of the relationship (usually for at least a few months if not years) are horrified at what their children went through but at the time were completely unable to see it and/or powerless to change it because every cell in their brain was focused on managing their abuser. There's no space left over for anything else. Leaving is impossible because of the barriers the abuser and they themselves will put in the way - go where? move schools and GP? live off what money? cope how?can't do anything right as it is... etc.

It might help to explore that - not because you owe her any kind of forgiveness - children should always come first - but because understanding it might help you realise that it probably wasn't a rejection of you but a complete inability to see beyond the needs of the abuser.

💐