Fascism doesn't arrive in fancy dress...

[Batmanisaplaceinturkey]

"I sometimes fear that
people think that fascism arrives in fancy dress
worn by grotesques and monsters
as played out in endless re-runs of the Nazis.

Fascism arrives as your friend.
It will restore your honour,
make you feel proud,
protect your house,
give you a job,
clean up the neighbourhood,
remind you of how great you once were,
clear out the venal and the corrupt,
remove anything you feel is unlike you...

It doesn't walk in saying,
"Our programme means militias, mass imprisonments, transportations, war and persecution."

By Michael Rosen

michaelrosenblog.blogspot.com/2014/05/fascism-i-sometimes-fear.html?m=1

Find it amusing all your like. It’s still accurate.

And you still make no more sense than you did yesterday

No one can be certain about anything. But I strongly believe it is vanishingly unlikely that there will be conscription to put boots on the ground in Ukraine.

Some young people might actually want to volunteer, in the same way some want to join the armed forces generally. But widespread conscription to put boots on the ground in Ukraine would not be tolerated. We just don't live in that sort of world now.

You are more so than European leaders and that takes some self assurance

What have European leaders said about the possibility of conscription in the UK? I must have missed that. Do you have a link, please @easternstandard ?

@GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing you are really bad at countering.

I can see it has stuck with you to bring it up again but surely you can write more than insult each time you lose the thread of a discussion?

@PandoraSox if you know where we'll end up with this you should let everyone know.

You will be the only one who is certain.

I see that it is a comprehension fail rather than a logic fail.

The poster (which was me) claimed that there are dangers inherent in any democracy because voters sometimes make bad choices. As history has clearly demonstrated. I have given the example of the Nazis but there have been others.

It is not in the slightest bit fascist to point out that electorates sometimes get things horribly and catastrophically wrong, and I am clearly not using that fact to argue against democracy or in favour of preventing people from voting as they see fit. I am merely pointing out that democracy, in and of itself, does not provide absolute protection from malign leadership.

The fact that you seem unable to get your head around this relatively simple point doesn't make me a fascist, no matter how much you might want to throw that term back at me.

I am not certain where we'll end up generally, no one knows that! But as I said I really doubt there will be conscription for the reasons I have set out. I don't know how old you are, but there has been such scaremongering before at various points during various conflicts.

Would you do me the courtesy of providing a link to what European leaders have said about conscription in the UK? I have answered your questions to me.

Absolutely this.

One of the problems here is we have got to a stage where the positive things listed, seem like negative aspirations. Are we not meant to want pride or clean streets? Or jobs and houses?

If we are stuggling for jobs, walking around in litter, living in shitty accommodation then yes - people with answers (even if it's bollocks) are going to be appealing. We (us lefty liberals) need to solve the problems so the right can't offer us solutions.

The left have failed women due to being the 'be kind' brigade and now we're all on Trumps side (I know, were not really) because he's not letting men in women's spaces. How does that work?

Open goals.

We can't blame the right. We need to sort ourselves out. It's like leaving cheese all over your kitchen then being shocked you have rats.

What makes you think Putin will be happy with a "a little bit of Ukraine"? He won't stop until he gets it all. There may be a ceasefire of sorts for a while but he'll try again.

Everyone is telling you why you are wrong.

It’s not “losing the thread of a discussion” if your posts literally make no sense.

As I told you yesterday you are posting about something you do not understand.

Saying “you are bad at countering” doesn’t make it true.

I’m happy to counter anything with any substance that you say, as I did yesterday until you dissolved into incoherent ramblings.

And you seem unable to get your head around that allowing people to vote for who they want is correct in a democracy. Anything else is facism.

@PandoraSox I find the Labour posters who support Starmer's proposal on troops concerning as I said. You still feel as you do and I am more aligned to other EU leaders and the quotes below. I doubt either of us are going to change on that.

As for conscription the key point is no one knows, as for being old and 'remembering' ok if it helps.

I still am not swayed by a politician posturing in combat gear for political gain. And it concerns me anyone is.

@GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing at this point you and @PandoraSox are 'everyone' in your view. In that case I'm happy for you to agree with each other and be as gung ho as you want. I'll pass and listen to other commentators.

Who is ignoring rape gangs? Nobody. Another right wing piece of bull.

Except that isn't what I'm saying at all. An obvious comprehension fail, as I said.

Never mind.

You can say it many, many times. Keep making statements and embarrassing yourself. I'm enjoying it.

The closest I have seen to fascism in my lifetime has been festooned in rainbow flags and proclaiming their moral superiority above all else

@eqpi4t2hbsnktd Everyone wants those things. Providing them with the current economy is tough though.
Fascist governments come in and promise things everyone wants. But their aim is to get power and achieve their aims. We know what Trump's aims are, he is open about it. To crush dissent, to make lots of money through a modern colonialism. So rather than stealing gold, slaves and art from countries, he wants to steal rare minerals and land. He has openly stated as part of the peace deal with Ukraine that he wants 50% of Ukraines rare minerals for free. He wants Canada and Greenlands rare minerals as well. Both Trump and Musk are there for themselves. But they will pick on vulnerable people if it helps them keep power.

So European leaders have actually said nothing about conscription in the UK, which is the topic we were discussing in our latest exchange.

Thanks for clarifying. I conclude that talk about conscription is currently baseless scaremongering.

A democracy does allow voters to vote how they wish.
To claim that they should only vote how you want, is not democratic.

I will leave it there.

This is standard throughout history. You say this as though we had finally reached the sunny uplands of an equal and just world. We never did, we were heavily propagandised into believing this while our imperial masters carried on the same. If I had to pick I'd far rather the wolves looked like wolves rather than hiding in sheep's clothing

You what? Are you seriously listing Starmer as an "extreme option"???

It is patently obvious that @FKAT didn't understand the poem, so the point that they were trying to make inevitably fell flat.

Is it "gung ho" to say no boots on the ground without the backing of Parliament? Hmm. Okay.

War is inevitable, as such so is conscription

@PandoraSox if that's you thinking you know what's a certainty...

Well it's a bit of a weak leap. As I said if you have any certainty you will be in the minority.

'The give me a link' try isn't that effective when pretty much anyone worth listening to understands how difficult this is to map out.