AIBU to feel really peed off with DP’s children

[PeoniesGinandBags]

I’ll try and provide some context. Partner and his ex wife have a very very hostile relationship and from my perspective, they both contribute to that hostility. They have 2 children aged 17 and 15 who, for the last 4 years, have refused to see him. Lots of family court interventions where he has been given access but due to their ages, this is not enforced in any way.

Their mum has told lots of untruths which haven’t helped. And these are big untruths like telling them they’re losing their home because dad hasn’t been paying maintenance. He has- £980 per month.

DP understandably gets chewed up about the lack of contact and messages frequently, asks to meet up etc. They always ignore him unless he says he has something for them. Like new iPhones, money, trainers. Then they’ll agree to meet him at the end of their road to get their stuff.

its starting to annoy me. I don’t know why or whether this is reasonable. It just feels like they’re using him. If they choose to not have a relationship then okay, but don’t just take the stuff. I’ve tried to tell him
it seems like this isn’t right but he just says that he wants to get them things and “be a dad”.

@IHate Also (genuinely just trying to be helpful as sometimes people don’t know) if you hit ‘quote’ the comment to which you’re replying will appear above your comment.

So I believe 😂 ( sometimes you don't want to quote the whole comment tho) x

Nice, yet another divorced dad who moves an inconvenient distance away from his kids and can only be bothered to see them a minimal amount, yet who now wonders why he doesn’t have much of a relationship with them. All the mum’s fault, of course.

I said it was agreed that they were too young to meet OP. And, again, if the ex ‘threw a fit’. The stats with regards to our court system are very clear, where fathers want custody or visitation, they will get it. Even if they are unfit. The kids are too old for anything to be enforced now, but they weren’t when all this started.

I’m not assuming anything. This man did not seek custody of his children. He did not seek 50/50. He did not raise them. He’s barely seen them over the last four years and they now want nothing to do with him . You may subscribe to the view that this is somehow the fault of the terrible ex, but - based on the facts currently available to us - I don’t think he’s been a good or present father. You reap what you sow.

They are 17 and 14-nearly adults. They are old enough to have formed their opinion of him independently. There is a reason they don't want him in their lives

Ding ding ding!

Parental alienation is a discredited concept which is now recognised as a tool for abusers to claim to continue their abuse.

There is new guidance about it. The family court and Cafcass have updated their policies about it. It was invented as a defence for a paedophile and the psych who invented the concept has now committed suicide.

This parental alienation thing has been recently outed as mainly hokum. If they hardly saw him when growing up and he didn’t fix his work situation to enable that, that’s why. Also, you meeting him and him cutting off contact, that doesn’t sound right. He should have prioritised his relationship with them.

Children are astute

Even my dog is relatively aware. At 15 and 17, typically they will have their own opinions, for whatever reason that is.

@IHate OP says there's been lots of family court interventions where he has been given access - but if the RP doesn't want the NRP to have access, it's easy enough to arrange.

You can't just make assumptions based on your own experience,

Believe you me, there are two sides to every story - it's never just black and white.

Stay out. and I bets it's not as black and white. You even say yourself he is contributed to the hostility too.

If they choose to not have a relationship then okay, but don’t just take the stuff

what stuff? the maintenance? It's not even 500 per child and as having teens, trust me, it doesn't go a long way in raising them and covering all their expenses.

@IHate A father finds a way the same way a mother does. The stats with regards to our court system are very clear, where fathers want custody or visitation, they will get it.

The stats with regards to our court system are indeed very clear - the mother will get custody and the father will get visitation rights

When I met him, it stopped as she said they were too young to meet a new partner and it was too soon.
Do you mean he stopped having them overnight? If you do that makes no sense and is really shitty parenting. That could understandably be when he lost them and if that's what he did he can't really blame his ex for the breakdown in their relationship.

Whether he did or not what he's doing now is keeping a tiny toe hold in their lives in hope of a better future relationship, I think many parents would do the same.

What a nasty woman

£980 is clearly too much based on a paramedics salary

If I was him I would pay her the minimum and then with the surplus I would pay it direct to the children - this would really get to her!

Either way the children do not want to see you op and they are punishing their poor father

Seems like the mother won out

This is so sad. For the kids and for their father. They will feel guilty for having used him when they're older even though the mum is behind it. He definitely should keep in touch with them; propose outings like going to a restaurant with them but not give stuff in order to see them for 1 minute. That's ridiculous and it's sending the wrong message: that people can be used. Not a good exemple to give them.

DP could probably do with some counselling.

It must be difficult to watch him beg for attention, but my advice is to stay out of it.

It sounds more like the mother stopped it - the op agreed to stay away as it was too soon so contact continued but a year later when it was no longer too soon the mother started to alienate the dc from.the father in retaliation for introduction to his partner of a year.

The mother has had a boyfriend then partner and now remarried so.she has no qualms about introducing a new partner unless it is his ex.

But the op says he did go to court but was.the dc are teens if they refuse what can you do - physically drag them?

The kids aren't really to blame. They're the result of very poor parenting by both parents.

Kids aren't stupid. They may have worked out that they're not really going to get what they need from their dad so instead they'll at least get as much "stuff" as they can.

Most teens are a bit materialistic anyway and it's not unusual for parents to have to resort to some degree of bribery to get their attention - "Come out for a meal and we can get pizza", "Let's go shopping together and maybe we can get a few new things". Some are worse than others but it's not uncommon.

Hi everyone, thanks for taking the time to reply. I’ve not had chance to go through them properly but just to clarify a few points:

1. DP did not stop having the children when he met me. We were in a relationship for a year and then I met them, pre arranged, at a family event as we thought that would work, lots of people about and less intense. It went well but then when they got home, mum phoned DP shouting and crying. Saying it was too soon. At this point t she blocked his phone and stopped the contact. He went back to family court after 3 months of trying to negotiate with her.
2. She does not work and they both agreed that, given his work, she would retain custody (when they split up). His maintenance payment should be £630 but he adds to it to help cover costs of extra curricular things.
3. when I talk about “getting stuff” I mean only the things like new iPhones as soon as they come out etc. They will only respond if he messages and there is something like this on offer.
4. The children do not see extended family on either side. He has maintained a relationship with his ex’s family. They do not see any of them though. Again, they have tried. His daughter told her uncle “mum said you don’t like us anymore”. He of course replied trying to reassure her.
5. he didn’t move miles away. She stayed in the family home which is in a city centre. Housing costs are high so he rented a home 15 miles away in a cheaper area. Good transport links though for them to be able to get to school etc.

my frustration, I think, is that he’s now learned that the only way to get a response is to buy them expensive things. It just seems so warped and sick- I know that sounds harsh. It’s starting to drive a wedge between us as I just say, stop it. Send cards, messages etc. ask about school, invite them for tea, days out but don’t engage with this “cash machine parenting”

I suspect the kids feel hurt and let down by him, it doesn't matter if you think that's fair or not, it's how they feel. He prioritised his job over spending time with them, and that sends a message, you can rationalise it and have good reasons for it, but they will still feel rejected. I don't think throwing gifts at them is the way to resolve this really, they want his love and interest, not his money.

Is that really so petty?

I have a friend in that situation. It's so sad as he would love to spend time with his kids but they refuse to have any contact. They are older but still live with their mum. Won't speak to their dad, which is heartbreaking for him. If they don't want contact though, which is their choice, then they shouldn't be accepting gifts.

I’ve already responded to the point about court interventions. I’ve evaluated the information available and come to conclusions, which I have explained. As I’m very happily married to my first and only husband, to whom I am first and only wife, I’m not making assumptions based on my experience. You certainly appear to be, though.

The stats very clearly show that when fathers go for custody, they get it. Overwhelmingly. They just don’t go for it. Much like this man. Then they moan about never seeing their kids.