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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think lots of badly behaved children are getting passed as SEN

95 replies

Hometimeyet · 16/02/2025 22:11

I am not judging anyone here but now 1 in every 4 children are diagnosed as SEN, while when I was growing up there were very few SEN children. I am in 30s.
Recently some of my friends DC were pushed and mistreated in School by children identified as SEN. I do understand that there are many children who are SEN and they need support but now I feel every new mum I have met in recent years, as soon as their toddler behaves like a normal toddler, they rush them to get them diagnosed as SEN and don't want to put effort to correct their bad behaviour and teach them discipline.
AIBU to think lots of badly behaved children are just termed as SEN and their parents are just not bothered to work with them to teach them value of discipline.

OP posts:
vivainsomnia · 17/02/2025 09:56

I also struggle to believe that a child with a medical condition can manage to mask for hours on hand engaging very well, yet somehow becoming totally uncontrollable at home. I have met such children and long before the parents started to raise concerns, I thought the way they brought up their kids was very poor. They of course didn't see it at all, hence needing to find a medical reason.

Kibble29 · 17/02/2025 09:58

OneAquaGoose · 17/02/2025 08:08

I think it’s worth remembering that SEN covers a huge range of needs. One of those recognised is behavioural difficulties and in my many years working as a teacher, this was by far the most difficult to cater for. It also had the biggest impact on the other children in the class.

In one of my last classes, I had a child who was on our school SEN register due to behaviour. No official diagnosis but on the insanely long list for it. Their behavioural difficulties were entirely down to the parent who explicitly told our head that we were not allowed to correct her child’s behaviour as they were “just expressing themselves”. Not a lesson passed when my TA didn’t have to leave the group she was providing intervention support to, to manage the child’s behaviour. That group of children were awaiting diagnosis for ADD and dyslexia. They lost out hugely, bless them, and every day my TA and I felt we had failed.

That’s unbelievable.

It’s a shame schools don’t have the power to remove children and send them home to “express themselves”.

Shocking parenting. Maybe their attitudes would change once they actually had to deal with it all day instead of sending them off for some poor teacher and TA to manage.

neverbeenskiing · 17/02/2025 10:09

TY78910 · 16/02/2025 22:44

I think everyone is a bit ND. I don't know a single person that doesn't have a 'quirk'. There is a difference between SEN (needing assistance to navigate the world) and a diversity that may not alter your every day life.

Also going in to adulthood, I have also encountered many people in the work setting who ask for a moon on the stick due to ND but have never been diagnosed / are pushing for diagnosis and not getting but use their belief to not carry out their contractual duties.

No, everyone is not "a bit ND". ND is not a personality "quirk" for fucks sake.

The ignorance on this thread is mind-blowing.

OneAquaGoose · 17/02/2025 10:20

MugsyBalonz · 17/02/2025 09:42

"SEN" is not a condition and is not a diagnosis. If you're going to be ignorant, at least use correct terminology.

SEN refers to Special Education Need and is related to a child's learning.

A child has a Special Education Need if they have difficulty learning or making progress and require additional support in order to do so.

The four areas of Special Education Need are:

  • Communication and interaction: Difficulties with understanding or expressing themselves
  • Cognition and learning: Difficulties with learning or processing information
  • Social, emotional, and mental health: Difficulties with social skills, emotions, or mental health
  • Sensory and/or physical needs: Difficulties with hearing, sight, or physical mobility

A child does not need to have a recognised diagnosis, a disability, or be under assessment, many children without these on the SEN register as it entirely reflects need.

It is common for children to move on and off the SEN register as they progress through school. Some will be on it a short time, will catch up to where they're supposed to be, and then will come off it. Some will be on there for their entire school career.

To give an example, a child making less than expected progress with reading or maths can be added to the SEN register as they need support over and above standard classroom provision in order to learn/progress. Would you say we're over-pathologising reading or numeracy...? Or do you just save your bigotry for disabilities?

SN refers to Special Needs, namely a disability and/or other conditions and this means a child has difficulty accessing education in the same way as their peers and so requires adjustments and/or support in order to do so. It does not refer only to neurodevelopmental conditions such as ASC or ADHD, it can mean children with sight/hearing impairments, epilepsy, diabetes, SMA, limb differences, EDS, and so on - there are a varied range of disabilities.

A child can have SN and absolutely no learning needs, in which case their support requirements will relate entirely to access and support managing their needs.

A child can have SEN and absolutely no SN, in which case their support will relate entirely to learning.

A child can have both and need support across the board.

The rise in children with SEN (learning needs) is largely down to factors such as covid-led gaps in education, social factors such as the increase in poverty over the last fourteen years, closure of early intervention services such as Sure Start, and lack of education funding alongside decreases in education staff.

The rise of children with neurodevelopmental conditions is, in part, due to neurodivergent adults having children as there is a strong genetic link. Diagnostic provision has improved and there is greater recognition of spectrum conditions and their impact upon the individual.

People with neurodevelopmental conditions have always existed, the genes we currently know are associated with neurodevelopmental conditions date back over 100,000 years (and research is on-going to identify other genes associated with neurodevelopmental conditions), genetic testing now usually forms part of the diagnostic process. Through our history there is documented evidence suggesting neurodevelopmental behaviours, for example there is on-going historical debate around changelings and whether many of these could have been autistic children as the "symptoms" described fit with what we now know are potentially markers of autism. There is a long history of individuals with intellectual differences. Autism and ADHD did not suddenly spring up from nowhere.

As for it being used to excuse bad parenting.... Jesus fucking Christ, I thought this myth died out years ago.

There are shitty parents everywhere. Some of them will have neurotypical children, some of them will not and the two things are not related. Shitty parents will always try and find an excuse to absolve them from parenting because that is what shitty parents do. You cannot diagnosis a condition that is not present and the diagnostic process is set up to screen out people like this, if anything this leads to under-diagnosis and gatekeeping of assessment processes. You cannot just rock up to a clinic and say "my kid is naughty" and walk away with a diagnosis and a box of Ritalin.

Perhaps you need to educate yourself before spouting off?

This is a super explanation of SEN and SN! My own family is a classic example of genetic ASD that has only been diagnosed in the current generation of children.

Where I think the poor parenting comes in is where it manifests in the child as one of the non-physical needs. And thus the child ends up on the SEN register.

Coffeeteasugar · 17/02/2025 10:44

Chiseltip · 17/02/2025 09:07

School

All children are different, we need to support them to become the best version of themselves and achieve all the things they want to in life.

Also School

Let's hold every child to the same standards, have them sit the same exams and judge them all on exactly the same criteria.

No wonder some kids struggle. Expecting all children to behave in the same manner, and to learn the same things at the same time, is a monumentally stupid idea.

It’s what happens when we let businessmen and governments interfere - often people who don’t even bring their own children up as it’s left to wives/nannies/boarding schools. For most decent teachers who are in the classroom and seeing the effect this attitude is having on most children it is heartbreaking and we mitigate the effects as much as possible until we get in trouble with SLT because we are not following the exact rules set by the MAT or we leave as it is just too upsetting/stressful/exhausting.

sugarplumfairy82 · 19/03/2025 13:15

Hometimeyet · 16/02/2025 22:11

I am not judging anyone here but now 1 in every 4 children are diagnosed as SEN, while when I was growing up there were very few SEN children. I am in 30s.
Recently some of my friends DC were pushed and mistreated in School by children identified as SEN. I do understand that there are many children who are SEN and they need support but now I feel every new mum I have met in recent years, as soon as their toddler behaves like a normal toddler, they rush them to get them diagnosed as SEN and don't want to put effort to correct their bad behaviour and teach them discipline.
AIBU to think lots of badly behaved children are just termed as SEN and their parents are just not bothered to work with them to teach them value of discipline.

I don't agree that diagnosis through the NHS is quick (maybe if you go private) but I do agree with you that too many parents absolve themselves and their children of terrible behaviour, lack of discipline, lack of boundaries, by saying oh well he's just ADHD. I have an ADHD son, he's not on a one-plan or EHCP or SEN register, but he diagnosed by the NHS which took over 4 years. We did this to get a better understanding of him and his needs, and so that special adjustments could be made for him at school - smaller setting for exams, movement breaks, fidget toys etc. We did not do this so that he could act like a brat and then get away with it, which is I'm sad to say is what is happening these days. If your child is autistic, adhd, or neuodivergent they still need a good diet, minimal screen time, exercise, hobbies, love, attention, discipline, and boundaries - like all kids. In a way it is just another personality type, but we've learnt to recognise and label it. Parents need to parent, no matter what the diagnosis. They are not doing their kids any favours by medicating them to the max and writing off aggression as just part of their condition. All children will have mental health issues at some point in their lives, as will adults. We need to teach our children that tending to your mental health is normal. I do sometimes think that labelling works against us, but unfortunately for some parents without that official diagnosis you just can't get the advice and help you need.

Gagamama2 · 16/07/2025 16:56

Don’t agree, at least not in my (middle class) area.

It takes a ton of organisation, determination and a lot of waiting to get an NHS label of SEN. The school have to be 100% on board and seeing things unusual with the child in class before it even gets raised. Even then, a lot of the time extra provisions are made in the classroom to try and get the child through it without referral. The parents I know with kids who have been diagnosed / or who are going through the process have jumped through all kinds of hoops with the schools trying all possibly avenues before being referred. One boy who is ADHD with severe dyslexia was diagnosed age 7, however for everyone else I know the diagnosis hasn’t been pushed through until much later when the child was really struggling to cope in the classroom and wheels were falling off.

I’ve also known two kids who have been privately assessed and told they didn’t have adhd or autism. So it isn’t a pay for service around here (thank goodness). Four years later one of them has had a breakdown age 13 and is on a psychiatric ward. Turns out he was actually autistic.

I have no idea where the 1 in 4 statistic comes from. In my son’s class of 30 he is only one of three who are being assessed / have a diagnosis.

Gagamama2 · 16/07/2025 17:00

sugarplumfairy82 · 19/03/2025 13:15

I don't agree that diagnosis through the NHS is quick (maybe if you go private) but I do agree with you that too many parents absolve themselves and their children of terrible behaviour, lack of discipline, lack of boundaries, by saying oh well he's just ADHD. I have an ADHD son, he's not on a one-plan or EHCP or SEN register, but he diagnosed by the NHS which took over 4 years. We did this to get a better understanding of him and his needs, and so that special adjustments could be made for him at school - smaller setting for exams, movement breaks, fidget toys etc. We did not do this so that he could act like a brat and then get away with it, which is I'm sad to say is what is happening these days. If your child is autistic, adhd, or neuodivergent they still need a good diet, minimal screen time, exercise, hobbies, love, attention, discipline, and boundaries - like all kids. In a way it is just another personality type, but we've learnt to recognise and label it. Parents need to parent, no matter what the diagnosis. They are not doing their kids any favours by medicating them to the max and writing off aggression as just part of their condition. All children will have mental health issues at some point in their lives, as will adults. We need to teach our children that tending to your mental health is normal. I do sometimes think that labelling works against us, but unfortunately for some parents without that official diagnosis you just can't get the advice and help you need.

Completely agree with all of this, and your story / experience is the same as mine. Also the same as friends I know with ND kids, they are good parents doing a good job parenting. Their kids aren’t brats, but a lot of them are very emotional and anxious. Many of them also are impulsive and richochet from one thing to another when they are round playing at ours. Antisocial behaviour is often different to SEN behaviour, and those parents who are excusing it as SEN without a diagnosis are the problem, not the families who have actually managed to get a diagnosis

ToWhitToWhoo · 16/07/2025 17:01

YANBU to say that some parents like to attribute their children's bad behaviour to SEN, as this currently is regarded as more 'respectable'..

YABU to give this as a reason for increased diagnosis. You need a lot more than a parent's opinion to get a diagnosis.

OonaStubbs · 16/07/2025 17:15

Bad behaviour should be judged as it is, it makes no difference to the victims whether the perpetrator has ADHD or any other SEN label. The onus should be on what is best for the law-abider, not the law-breaker.

Susie387 · 16/07/2025 17:27

aSpanielintheworks · 17/02/2025 08:31

I work in Primary school and there are many children with a diagnosis of ASD/Adhd legitimately who have gone through a lot to get the support they need

But it's becoming increasingly common - a clear example comes to mind - of children who show no difficulties at school who's parents are suddenly pushing for a paid diagnosis because of out of control behaviour at home.
One in particular is refusing for paeds to assess her dc at school as they have no issues with behaviour and have good friends at school.

I am fully aware of children who mask, but all day every day?

I agree with the poster above who says it's now increasingly common to give a name/diagnosis to normal variations in children's personalities and those pushing boundaries in a normal way at home.

DS had absolutely no issues all through primary school, no one ever suggested there might even be the tiniest issue with him until he got to 10 and his teacher went on an course about ASD. She got someone in to observe him who picked up on easily missed things like him putting his hands over his ears during an assembly. He thrived in the predictable daily structure of a small primary school but coped less well after a day of masking when he got home.

18 months later he had a diagnosis from the NHS and everything made sense, he's extremely bright, quiet and very well behaved. The report the school did on him for his assessment made him sound perfect - the specialist paediatrician on the other hand was amazed that he hadn't been picked up earlier and was extremely concerned about his transition to secondary school and she was right that secondary was far, far more difficult for him. No one should be getting a diagnosis on the basis that their child is badly behaved at home, if they are then it's down to corrupt private doctors.

OP some random saying 'I think he's got ADHD' isn't a diagnosis and has nothing to do with having SEN. ADHD would never be diagnosed in a toddler. So are you talking about parents deciding their kids are ND without a diagnosis? Or are you saying the issue is that people are able to buy a diagnosis? Or are you suggesting there are too many children with an NHS diagnosis now? The fact that it's not at all clear what your issue is just suggests you don't have good intentions tbh.

x2boys · 16/07/2025 17:29

Hometimeyet · 16/02/2025 22:11

I am not judging anyone here but now 1 in every 4 children are diagnosed as SEN, while when I was growing up there were very few SEN children. I am in 30s.
Recently some of my friends DC were pushed and mistreated in School by children identified as SEN. I do understand that there are many children who are SEN and they need support but now I feel every new mum I have met in recent years, as soon as their toddler behaves like a normal toddler, they rush them to get them diagnosed as SEN and don't want to put effort to correct their bad behaviour and teach them discipline.
AIBU to think lots of badly behaved children are just termed as SEN and their parents are just not bothered to work with them to teach them value of discipline.

They don't just get a diagnosis because the parents want one.

Swiftie1878 · 16/07/2025 17:34

Our Primary is now 30% SEND. 😳

x2boys · 16/07/2025 17:47

FKAT · 16/02/2025 22:25

Yeah I agree.

Also being neurodivergent in itself isn't a special need.

This isn't to say that special needs don't exist or aren't increasing (and I do think they are) but being a bit different or lacking attention or anxious is not necessarily something that needs medicalising or certifying.

I mean my Neuro divergent son goes to a special.needs school so how can you dismiss it as not a special need 🤔

Isxmasoveryet · 16/07/2025 17:53

Hometimeyet · 16/02/2025 22:12

One of my friends wife recently visited and she casually said oh my toddler likes to walk and run a lot, probably he's ADHD, which is unreasonable as he has got no other concerns.

I got shot down for saying something similar that ADHD especially and autism seems to be anew parenting trend with parents looking for the slightest thing to get a diagnosis such as examples you have given I always sceptical when a parent says o little Johnny has such n such

Isxmasoveryet · 16/07/2025 17:55

x2boys · 16/07/2025 17:29

They don't just get a diagnosis because the parents want one.

If u go private u get the diagnosis you pay for and also doctors listen to parents/carers before even looking near the child do they not

flapjackfairy · 16/07/2025 17:58

Isxmasoveryet · 16/07/2025 17:55

If u go private u get the diagnosis you pay for and also doctors listen to parents/carers before even looking near the child do they not

no they do not. Lots of crap being posted about disabled kids as usual

x2boys · 16/07/2025 18:00

Isxmasoveryet · 16/07/2025 17:55

If u go private u get the diagnosis you pay for and also doctors listen to parents/carers before even looking near the child do they not

Well.If that's the case it's not worth the paper it's written on in and nobody should be taking any notice of it.

x2boys · 16/07/2025 18:05

I have no doubt there are parents that do try and get a diagnosis but just because they want one doesn't mean they will.get it
As I have said numerous times on numerous threads on the DL A Facebook group in on people do put in claims for the most tenuous of reasons but they are rarely successful.

Gagamama2 · 16/07/2025 18:24

Isxmasoveryet · 16/07/2025 17:55

If u go private u get the diagnosis you pay for and also doctors listen to parents/carers before even looking near the child do they not

This is absolute BS and damaging to disabled children.

a private diagnosis usually consists of loads of questions for both parents and the school, often an IN PERSON interview with the parent or carer, and a 2-4 hour IN PERSON assessment with the child.

my 6 year old is getting help in sept. The very first step is a senior teacher coming in from outside the school to observe him in the classroom. This is before they even talk about whether he needs the actual assessment. Trust me, you don’t get to the assessement stage in the NHS unless you really need to be there

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