To think lots of badly behaved children are getting passed as SEN

[Hometimeyet]

I am not judging anyone here but now 1 in every 4 children are diagnosed as SEN, while when I was growing up there were very few SEN children. I am in 30s.
Recently some of my friends DC were pushed and mistreated in School by children identified as SEN. I do understand that there are many children who are SEN and they need support but now I feel every new mum I have met in recent years, as soon as their toddler behaves like a normal toddler, they rush them to get them diagnosed as SEN and don't want to put effort to correct their bad behaviour and teach them discipline.
AIBU to think lots of badly behaved children are just termed as SEN and their parents are just not bothered to work with them to teach them value of discipline.

Nowhere I have mentioned anything wrong about the SEN children or parents. Many parents of SEN children have agreed to this post. We should be working with our children to set boundaries rather than jumping them to get them a diagnosis so we can make way for the children who are actually SEN who need those very crucial but limited resources.

I don’t deny that there are definitely issues with the school system and also parenting issues in UK but you lost me at ‘rush to get them a diagnosis…’ as we all know if you have a child with additional needs there’s no rushing at all about it-so ‘proceeds at a snails pace of waiting lists and paperwork ’ is more accurate.

its also quite a gruelling thing getting your child a diagnosis, it’s certainly not just deciding one day and heading off to get a certificate! And a diagnosis by itself changes very little-so certainly not someone saying oh my child jumps let’s get an ADHD diagnosis let’s be real. It sounds like the parents you are describing don’t care much, so I can’t imagine them spending thousands on a private assessment.

its also not 1 in 4, last data suggests 13.6% without an ECHP and just under 5% with an EHCP. Remember SEN can cover all sorts of different things but even so that doesn’t even add up to 1 in 5 (but almost).
I don’t think you can just apply your child’s class statistical breakdown to every school-although also bit weird they give you a breakdown, I’ve no idea if any other children are SEN in my sons class,

Also whilst I agree that there might be some parents who use the diagnose as an excuse, let’s be real that there also some children in that 3 out of 4 non SEN group that hit and behave poorly also, because poor behaviour isn’t a SEN exclusive issue.

Agree with other poster that these kind of posts are just disguised digs really. Same as posts at outrage if kids starting school not ready/not potty trained etc and adding after a tirade of judgement ‘oh I’m not talking about SEN’ of course you’re talking about SEN they’re a massive part of that group of children.

I will say I might have thought the same before I had my son-having a child with additional needs really humbles you and massively opens your eyes, where I’d have maybe made reductive statements before too. So I do get why people whose children are neurotypical don’t get it, but it doesn’t take much to ask questions and have conversations rather than just jump to generalising,

I couldn’t give a shit what people challenge. I think most posters like different opinions and scope for debate on subjects.

I don’t think the OP suggested for a minute that everyone with a SEN diagnosis is just a brat with a shit parent, or that SEN conditions don’t exist. That would be offensive and inflammatory.

She feels that people sometimes rush to explain behaviour that can be corrected as SEN, and many of the replies agree with her.

Why is that offensive to you? Nobody’s questioning your parenting or anything like that.

You should definitely tell people who are neurodivergent that actually everyone is a bit, they absolutely love it when people say that. 😫

OP your post is inherently ableist because it is suggesting some dc who are diagnosed with SEND are not really SEND. This is a problem that doesn’t really exist IME.

Of course it is. ADHD is a neurodiverse condition. ASD is. They are disabilities by definition.

I don't doubt that some people throw the terms around, but there are also a lot of children who are struggling due to a neurodivergence.

I have two who are probably neurodivergent. Both don't display behaviour anything like what you describe. They are incredibly well behaved, rule followers, who listen intently to want their teachers say.

Probably my eldest will do OK at school while his mental health declines if he doesn't have a diagnosis. My second would likely achieve nothing like she is capable of achieving as despite being highly intelligent, she can't talk in school due to anxiety - a likely symptom of her expected autism! She therefore would probably get forgotten about/left behind. We haven't gone for private diagnosis - we couldn't easily afford it and her school are supporting based on what they can see she needs, so instead we are on the long NHS waiting list.

This.

"Jump to get a diagnosis". I didn't realise it was so easy to get a diagnosis. Silly us for letting it take several years! If only I'd known I could have just had my DC diagnosed immediately.

My DC has an autism diagnosis. He's also very well behaved and has always had boundaries. Just like his older brother who doesn't have any SEN.

I don't know why you're talking about the 1 in 5 children who are on SEN support at school or who have EHCPs when your issue seems to be with children without SEN but with shit parents. Why mention the stat and link to the govt website if you're not criticising those children and those parents?

I’ve been on here a long time and know what these posters are after. Faux naive bollocks.

No one is diagnosed with SEN. It's not a diagnosis. Some kids on their school's SEN register will have a medical diagnosis of a specific condition and some won't. Some kids move on and off the register.

No parent is rushing to get their toddler diagnosed because it's literally impossible to "rush" to any kind of diagnosis when the waiting lists are so long. The diagnosis usually comes when you've done a million parenting courses, had a hundred meetings, read all the books, filled out so many forms with the same information - which is to say, when you've done a lot of work for your kid for a parent who is "just not bothered".

Strangely enough, now my son has support in place his behaviour is a lot better. Funny that. Almost like it was because his brain processes differently, and he was anxious, and confused, and unable to understand his and others' emotions rather than because I never tried to teach him right from wrong.

Sorry, but it really isn't all about you.

I think you have really misunderstood the tone of this thread.

People throwing the diagnosis of SEN around so readily minimises the real cases.

@Isittimeformynapyet I didn't say it was. And I was responding to someone who objected to people like me responding to threads like this. So it's utterly reasonable to give my thoughts on this and to consider what the OP and others are saying as applicable to me and to my child, as an example of the kind of people the OP wants to target with this discussion.

@PixieLaLar oh I recognise the "tone".

Don’t make out that I objected to you responding when I wondered why people don’t scroll past rather than get upset with it all. 😅

Everyone can share their opinion. If people’s thoughts don’t align with yours, that’s fine. Not everything is a personal attack.

@Kibble29 cool. You do you and I'll do me, including how I react to threads and what I post.

Maybe I'm naive, but I really thought the OP was not talking about children with diagnoses, or denying that conditions exist.

I agreed with the OP whilst having a brother with ASD (70s kid, undiagnosed) whose school life was HELL.

I haven't walked in your shoes so I won't involve myself further.

Oof, you are brave/foolhardy for starting this thread. YANBU though.

Yeah, OP, if we are seeing 1/4 or 1/5 of all kinds being diagnose, there is a problem with the parameters for diagnosis.

I think there are a few reasons, some of it is inappropriate expectations of kids in school.

Some is that parenting norms now can have serious issues around setting appropriate boundaries.

And the other part I believe is that we are causing iatrogenic disease - through addiction to media, and also lack of appropriate self-directed play time, both alone and with other kids.

So some is real problems we are creating, but I think quite a lot is not. The kids just need a more appropriate environment and expectations.

But no one thinks this is true of all kinds with a significant diagnosis. We've all seen children with significant autism, or other problems.

Do you not see that it could be true that there are children with real problems, and also children who are being diagnosed inappropriately?

It's not personal to you, no one knows you or your child, or is trying to diagnose your child.

I think it’s worth remembering that SEN covers a huge range of needs. One of those recognised is behavioural difficulties and in my many years working as a teacher, this was by far the most difficult to cater for. It also had the biggest impact on the other children in the class.

In one of my last classes, I had a child who was on our school SEN register due to behaviour. No official diagnosis but on the insanely long list for it. Their behavioural difficulties were entirely down to the parent who explicitly told our head that we were not allowed to correct her child’s behaviour as they were “just expressing themselves”. Not a lesson passed when my TA didn’t have to leave the group she was providing intervention support to, to manage the child’s behaviour. That group of children were awaiting diagnosis for ADD and dyslexia. They lost out hugely, bless them, and every day my TA and I felt we had failed.

I work in Primary school and there are many children with a diagnosis of ASD/Adhd legitimately who have gone through a lot to get the support they need

But it's becoming increasingly common - a clear example comes to mind - of children who show no difficulties at school who's parents are suddenly pushing for a paid diagnosis because of out of control behaviour at home.
One in particular is refusing for paeds to assess her dc at school as they have no issues with behaviour and have good friends at school.

I am fully aware of children who mask, but all day every day?

I agree with the poster above who says it's now increasingly common to give a name/diagnosis to normal variations in children's personalities and those pushing boundaries in a normal way at home.

School

All children are different, we need to support them to become the best version of themselves and achieve all the things they want to in life.

Also School

Let's hold every child to the same standards, have them sit the same exams and judge them all on exactly the same criteria.

No wonder some kids struggle. Expecting all children to behave in the same manner, and to learn the same things at the same time, is a monumentally stupid idea.

"SEN" is not a condition and is not a diagnosis. If you're going to be ignorant, at least use correct terminology.

SEN refers to Special Education Need and is related to a child's learning.

A child has a Special Education Need if they have difficulty learning or making progress and require additional support in order to do so.

The four areas of Special Education Need are:

• Communication and interaction: Difficulties with understanding or expressing themselves
• Cognition and learning: Difficulties with learning or processing information
• Social, emotional, and mental health: Difficulties with social skills, emotions, or mental health
• Sensory and/or physical needs: Difficulties with hearing, sight, or physical mobility

A child does not need to have a recognised diagnosis, a disability, or be under assessment, many children without these on the SEN register as it entirely reflects need.

It is common for children to move on and off the SEN register as they progress through school. Some will be on it a short time, will catch up to where they're supposed to be, and then will come off it. Some will be on there for their entire school career.

To give an example, a child making less than expected progress with reading or maths can be added to the SEN register as they need support over and above standard classroom provision in order to learn/progress. Would you say we're over-pathologising reading or numeracy...? Or do you just save your bigotry for disabilities?

SN refers to Special Needs, namely a disability and/or other conditions and this means a child has difficulty accessing education in the same way as their peers and so requires adjustments and/or support in order to do so. It does not refer only to neurodevelopmental conditions such as ASC or ADHD, it can mean children with sight/hearing impairments, epilepsy, diabetes, SMA, limb differences, EDS, and so on - there are a varied range of disabilities.

A child can have SN and absolutely no learning needs, in which case their support requirements will relate entirely to access and support managing their needs.

A child can have SEN and absolutely no SN, in which case their support will relate entirely to learning.

A child can have both and need support across the board.

The rise in children with SEN (learning needs) is largely down to factors such as covid-led gaps in education, social factors such as the increase in poverty over the last fourteen years, closure of early intervention services such as Sure Start, and lack of education funding alongside decreases in education staff.

The rise of children with neurodevelopmental conditions is, in part, due to neurodivergent adults having children as there is a strong genetic link. Diagnostic provision has improved and there is greater recognition of spectrum conditions and their impact upon the individual.

People with neurodevelopmental conditions have always existed, the genes we currently know are associated with neurodevelopmental conditions date back over 100,000 years (and research is on-going to identify other genes associated with neurodevelopmental conditions), genetic testing now usually forms part of the diagnostic process. Through our history there is documented evidence suggesting neurodevelopmental behaviours, for example there is on-going historical debate around changelings and whether many of these could have been autistic children as the "symptoms" described fit with what we now know are potentially markers of autism. There is a long history of individuals with intellectual differences. Autism and ADHD did not suddenly spring up from nowhere.

As for it being used to excuse bad parenting.... Jesus fucking Christ, I thought this myth died out years ago.

There are shitty parents everywhere. Some of them will have neurotypical children, some of them will not and the two things are not related. Shitty parents will always try and find an excuse to absolve them from parenting because that is what shitty parents do. You cannot diagnosis a condition that is not present and the diagnostic process is set up to screen out people like this, if anything this leads to under-diagnosis and gatekeeping of assessment processes. You cannot just rock up to a clinic and say "my kid is naughty" and walk away with a diagnosis and a box of Ritalin.

Perhaps you need to educate yourself before spouting off?