To ask if it’s normal for a four year old to be so argumentative and rude?

[traxt]

I don’t want to be too critical of my four year old but I suppose I’m asking because you have terrible twos and everyone reassures you it’s normal and then threenager and everyone says that’s normal and then four - I’m not sure what to expect.

DS does have many nice qualities but at the moment he’s so argumentative and negative. This morning he went swimming and the conversation literally went something like
‘Let’s get your socks on so we can go swimming!’
’we’re NOT going swimming!’
‘let’s get in the car!’
’i don’t WANT to!’

these sorts of responses are fairly typical to whatever - even something he does really want or has just asked for so ‘mummy can I watch TV’ ‘yes sure’ ‘I don’t WANT to watch TV!’

I don’t know if he’s just experimenting with language and with choices but it’s pretty tiresome. Discipline is really hard as he just whines and complains and argues constantly.

He isn’t always like this but it’s a lot and it’s so frustrating and to be honest is impacting on our relationship. It has crossed my mind that he’s not a very ‘nice’ child and then I feel ashamed I had such a horrible thought. But it does feel like everything is hard work and unpleasant.

He reminds me of DHs niece. She was like this. She grew out of it around the age of 18 😂.

joking aside. He’s probably just testing boundaries. Just be firm and consistent and don’t stand for his nonsense and he’ll be fine.

Thanks; I appreciate that!

It doesn’t sound like usual 4 year old behaviour to me. I’d be wondering about Pathological Demand Avoidance - a form of autism.
Sounds very wearing. Hope it isn’t PAD and he grows out of it soon OP.

I don’t think he has any neurodiversity; I really hope not to be honest.

Terrible twos
Threenagers
Fuck you fours...

Fives?

No it doesn't. Four year olds spend the week in school or nursery learning and doing, they get fed up of being told what to do. It's hard but just humour him a bit

What do you do when he whines and is rude? There needs to be a consequence or he will just keep doing it. I would tell mine ‘I dont speak whine’ and then not engage with them until they changed their tone. Then recognized when they were speaking nicely. Then dont ask or suggest, tell. So not lets get in the car…we are getting in the car in 2 mins. Lastly the phrases I want doesnt get and You get what you get and you dont get upset can be helpful. In terms of consequences, if he wont get in the car, then there wont be time to do xyz as he has wasted everyone’s time. Try not to get caught up in the frustration or emotion of it, jist stay v calm and low key yourself so he doesnt see he is annoying you

Goodness me, they always find a new way to be trying don’t they. He sounds like a bright kid and he’s probably enjoying acquiring the formative skills which will equip him for a career in law or politics.

@SeaToSki its very hard to be honest because whatever consequence you impose often escalates the situation, so if he’s whining he whines even more! The other day I did get properly fed up of it and I really yelled at him and it worked insofar as he was quiet but I’m also conscious I was nastier than I meant to be (it was borne from frustration but he didn’t understand that.) I suppose I want to shape his will and character without destroying his self esteem!

I do sometimes think he’s going to end up in politics or jail!

Jeez, don't humour him fgs. This is where the seeds of rude, entitled teenagers are sown. You're the adult, the parent, not his mate.

Those sort of ‘you are the parent’ comments are helpful if your child is wanting to stay at soft play and you need to go or they want another biscuit. I’ve no issue being firm in those instances. But how do you ‘be a parent’ when someone is just whiny and negative and sulky? That’s a rhetorical question by the way; I’m not necessarily expecting an answer.

I say the same about my four year old son! He sounds similar to my boy and many other boys i
know at that age. How is he at school? I actually got a glowing report and couldn’t believe my little tyrant was such a model pupil. Probably why he is so assertive at home. I pick my battles, a lot of the time I say in my head “he is saying, I DON’T WANNA PUT MY SHOES ON” but what he is really trying to communicate is “bloody hell Mum, I’ve had a week of it. Trev wouldn’t share his tractor and Meg threw all the sand out of the sandtray. I just want to let off some steam” 🤣.

Ah, they get moody like everyone else.

Some more than others.

It is a power struggle.

M DS has always had no qualms about answering back bluntly, thinking there is no difference between an adult and a 4 year old.

DD never answered back, a sweetheart always.

They haven't charged personality much as they've grown.

Ah thank you … He isn’t at school yet but is fine in nursery. And sometimes with me he can be lovely but other times he can be awful!

Similarly struggling at times with our four year old, seemed to start overnight as soon as he turned four.

A lot of the same techniques with PDA have worked for us ie using declarative language, letting some things slide and working a lot on transitions. We end up being 5-10 mins later sometimes, but I’d rather be 5-10 mins late and everyone be calm and happy, than on time/5 mins late anyway and everyone is worked up and on edge.

A huge impact has been limiting screen time, with only about 5 hours max TV in the past month. We’ve also seen a big difference using a book at nursery about using his words.

I’ll have a look for that. He doesn’t have loads of screen time but I could look at reducing it. He’s very into Spider-Man and (unfortunately) peppa pig.

If it makes you feel better, that strong willed personality helps as they grow.

They don't put up with nonsense from other children, whereas my softly child is a people pleaser.

Good luck.

Pick your battles.

My 4yo is often like this too, he's always been strong-willed and opinionated and now as he gets older there are fewer meltdowns but more arguments. I often find he picks fights with me after something has happened that was overwhelming or uncomfortable for him (eg. a fight with a nursery friend or his little brother taking his toy, or plans changing at short notice, or my own mood being a bit off). Previously that would cause a tantrum, now he argues about socks. I've started to just thank him for his opinion but firmly state what we are doing and refuse to engage in an argument. I don't punish or have any consequences, but I find if I don't engage then it doesn't escalate.

I was this kid and my parents did the whole "I can see a smile! Yes I can!" teasing thing when I was grumpy - it usually worked at that age because it's that whole "don't think of an elephant" and immediately you think of an elephant thing.

It’s a super annoying trait of 4 year olds 😂 the whinging makes me want to pop my own ear drums.
I used to say to DD “you can talk to me, you can explain to me, you cannot whinge at me”.
So if “noooo I don’t want to doooo thaaaat” I’d say “nope, I can’t understand that voice DD so try again in your normal voice please”.

If you’re giving him a choice, always choice between two things you want him to do.
So for example, if he’s going swimming and that’s non-negotiable, get two sets of swimming trunks and say “well we have to go swimming but I will let you choose which colour today”.
He’s starting to learn and yearn for independence so he will want some control (so we have to somewhat trick them into thinking they have some control).

Any form of whinging or moaning I use anything to distract and almost utterly ignore the whinge.
If the whinging starts going round shops I’ll say “that’s nice, anyway, do you want to pick out the food from the fridges”.

With utter defiance/unwanted behaviour, we do timeout by the front door for 1 minute per every year of age.
It has to be done in utter silence and an apology for x, y z and we start again x

🤣

DD was like it. She’s 8 now and no ND. I think testing boundaries, don’t give in.

It reminds me of Horrid Henry, is he watching that by any chance?

The choice thing just doesn’t work with DS; never has, he just whinges he doesn’t want his red OR his blue and you end up with ‘I don’t WANT the red ones,’ ‘I don’t WANT the blue ones’ on loop. I do generally not engage but it’s tiresome as hell. Thanks for the advice, it is appreciated!