To ask if it’s normal for a four year old to be so argumentative and rude?

[traxt]

I don’t want to be too critical of my four year old but I suppose I’m asking because you have terrible twos and everyone reassures you it’s normal and then threenager and everyone says that’s normal and then four - I’m not sure what to expect.

DS does have many nice qualities but at the moment he’s so argumentative and negative. This morning he went swimming and the conversation literally went something like
‘Let’s get your socks on so we can go swimming!’
’we’re NOT going swimming!’
‘let’s get in the car!’
’i don’t WANT to!’

these sorts of responses are fairly typical to whatever - even something he does really want or has just asked for so ‘mummy can I watch TV’ ‘yes sure’ ‘I don’t WANT to watch TV!’

I don’t know if he’s just experimenting with language and with choices but it’s pretty tiresome. Discipline is really hard as he just whines and complains and argues constantly.

He isn’t always like this but it’s a lot and it’s so frustrating and to be honest is impacting on our relationship. It has crossed my mind that he’s not a very ‘nice’ child and then I feel ashamed I had such a horrible thought. But it does feel like everything is hard work and unpleasant.

I think as others have said say things like I can’t hear you when you are whining or I don’t understand whine. It’s the same type of being firm. You need to stamp it out and not let it perpetuate.

He's pulling your strings and enjoying it.

You're getting outsmarted by your own kid. You need to chill a bit and enjoy the fact he's a subversive little shite: the most enjoyable type of child.

If ds whinges I just say sorry my ears don't understand that tone, maybe if you tried again I would

Ignore
distractions
pre empt
more ignoring
praise the positive
loud song on radio
be silly fake a fart

Sounds like my guy was at 4, at 6 he is starting to mellow.

What worked and still works for us was making it a game, or an opportunity to prove me wrong. So for brushing teeth i will hold up his toothbrush and ask if i am meant to brush my hair with it, or maybe me nose? He loves telling em it is for teeth and then showing me how. Same with getting dressed - "are these my shoes? Do they go on my hands?" - gives them a chance to engage that isn't about having another demand placed on them. Same for going to the bathroom - "i bet i can be there first!"

I have a 4 yo DS and he sounds very similar. I’m hoping it’s just a phase. Apparently he’s great at nursery and with grandparents until me or DH arrive then he starts acting up again, he’s great when we’re out as well, it’s literally just when we’re at home. I think he’s just testing boundaries. He’s well behaved about 90% of the time but the 10% where he isn’t I just want to put him in the bin 🙈

Yes, mine appears to be a lovely child out and about as well!

I used to have quite good results with, "Sorry, I've got these funny ears - they just can't hear whining!". No response except to normal speech.

Reward good behaviour (with attention) and ignore bad (like sulkiness). Don't repeat yourself (e.g. with "we're going swimming") - say it once, and when it's time to go, pick him up if you have to. If he won't put the socks on, stick them in the swimming bag, and pick him up and off you go. I think that's all you can do - don't argue with a small child or teach him that everything's a negotiation.

My DS6 is just like this and it’s so draining! I’ve massively lowered my expectations of him in some ways. For example if he doesn’t want the red or blue socks, I’d say… choose another pair then or don’t wear socks. Then carry on getting myself ready. He might come back with ‘but then my feet will get sore’ which I will agree with. All whilst going about my day getting ready to leave. In our case it’s a lot about control and I do parent in a PDA way a lot of the time with low demands and I’m quite ok with taking my children out in pyjamas, no coat, etc if that’s what they choose. Natural consequence is the best teacher for the stubborn ones!! Another thing that sometimes stops my boy in his tracks is if he is getting SUPER whingey I will look him in the eye and ask if he would like a cuddle as he sounds frustrated… more often than not he will say yes and we can have a big squeeze and I’ll ask again what’s frustrating him. Kind of a reset for us both.

…sometimes nothing works and (like today) I do get exasperated at the pure non stop whining!! I have 2 other kids so don’t really have time or headspace for it 😂

Also, with my DS, if he is whinging I genuinely cannot understand him. He does get fed up as I ask him to repeat himself so many times he finally says it in a normal voice 😀

Have you tried laughing at his unreasonable daftness?

My DD is 4 and very much at the whiny stage. At least I hope it's just a stage. I don't know how many times she will have to try fruitlessly whinging / whining / tantrumming over things before she figures out that it never actually works. I do the whole "try asking that a different way" / 'use your normal voice " thing. Sometimes when it starts to escalate but before she's too far gone I can appeal to her logical side by asking her "has this behaviour ever changed my mind?" Also if she's whining or trying to negotiate over a decision I've made I will tell her "I've already answered that question and I'm not going to talk about it anymore. If you want to cry / moan / whine about it because you're sad then that's ok but maybe do it somewhere else and then come back when you've finished." It's all about holding a firm line and being consistent. I find the Janet Lansbury 'Unruffled' podcast / blog quite helpful in cultivating that identity as a sturdy leader for your child.

My son was extremely headstrong like this at 4.

I resorted to bribery. 'Decide which colour socks, put them on then you can have a chocolate button'.

It was like training a puppy.

My 3.5yo is incredibly whiney and it drives me mad. Giving her a choice doesn't always work as she just whinges "I don't know!" or will just ignore me then shout/whine "I said the blue ones!!!" if I make the choice for her. She also has a habit of whining without actually forming any words so if something mildly inconveniences her she'll just make a whingey crying noise in the hopes we'll just take the hint and sort it. What's had some success with that is modelling what she's meant to say "I think you mean, 'Can you get me another drink please?'" sometimes I'll wait until she repeats it back and other times I'll just model it. Trying to praise her a lot when she is able to verbalise things clearly too.

My four year old is really hard work atm. She didn’t have the terrible twos, not much of a threeager either but boy is she making up for it now. Nothing is having an effect on her and the classic trick of avoiding anything is that will cause a strop doesn’t work either. Just got to weather it until she grows out of it, which she will. Mines even stroppy at school!

So he needs a firm telling off then. Don't worry OP, they won't impact his character other than to stop him being a whiney child And yes, unless somethings up for discussion, tell.him what to do.

Mine was like this when all his friends went to school and he didn't. He still argues but now at 4.5 he's so clever about it!

Me: have 4 more bites
Him: imagine how silly it would be if you had to have 41 more bites. I'll have 3 more bites

Be unbothered. Ignore it. Engage with him when he's not whining, moaning, or arguing for the sake of it.

The arguing and whining only continues because it must work to some extent.

Believe me it doesn’t. He kept up a whine for 45 minutes the other day. Incessantly.

Totally normal 4yo behaviour. I’ve got one that was very like this and it’s getting easier now at 6.

If it helps I agree that it’s a positive when older to have a strong personality and not just do what you’re told unquestioningly. I’d worry more about my compliant DD (though even she has her moments!).

Just hang on in there is my advice!

But it is a relief it isn’t just me. I know tiredness adds to it; he’s notably grumpier and more argumentative when he’s woken early!

I'd still ignore it. Put headphones in, crack on with some housework, and let him whine. Tell him honestly that it's unpleasant for other people and he can come and get you when he's decided he's done with that nonsense.

He can either whine to himself for as long as he wants or he can decide, actually it would be nice to go swimming.

And thank you - he doesn’t seem notably different from his peers!

I can’t walk round with headphones on. I have another child who may wish to speak to me, and even if she didn’t I’m not sure it’s very sensible!

My 4yo too op. Following for tips.

I do do a lot of the stuff suggested on this thread (preparing for transitions, pre-empting issues etc) and they generally work but they are also exhausting in their own way. My nerves are so jangled constantly preparing for the next demand.

Dd jumped into my bed this morning when she woke up, for a morning cuddle (lovely...at first...). In the time it took for dh to change dc2's nappy, dd...

-complained of being hungry, demanded an apple instead of normal breakfast
-refused to do her first morning toilet (a rule we have to prevent accidents)
-put her cold hands on my thigh, then when I was uncomfortable, did it again and again
-complained dh was taking too long
-tried to negotiate that she'd go to the toilet if I gave her the apple first
-tried to negotiate going to the downstairs loo instead of the upstairs bathroom (just, why?)
-before I could respond as I'm considering this, complained and whined some more about dh taking too long
-cold hands on my thigh again

All in about three minutes before I've even got out of bed