To ask if it’s normal for a four year old to be so argumentative and rude?

[traxt]

I don’t want to be too critical of my four year old but I suppose I’m asking because you have terrible twos and everyone reassures you it’s normal and then threenager and everyone says that’s normal and then four - I’m not sure what to expect.

DS does have many nice qualities but at the moment he’s so argumentative and negative. This morning he went swimming and the conversation literally went something like
‘Let’s get your socks on so we can go swimming!’
’we’re NOT going swimming!’
‘let’s get in the car!’
’i don’t WANT to!’

these sorts of responses are fairly typical to whatever - even something he does really want or has just asked for so ‘mummy can I watch TV’ ‘yes sure’ ‘I don’t WANT to watch TV!’

I don’t know if he’s just experimenting with language and with choices but it’s pretty tiresome. Discipline is really hard as he just whines and complains and argues constantly.

He isn’t always like this but it’s a lot and it’s so frustrating and to be honest is impacting on our relationship. It has crossed my mind that he’s not a very ‘nice’ child and then I feel ashamed I had such a horrible thought. But it does feel like everything is hard work and unpleasant.

Absolutely not! And never will!

Sounds normal to me - annoying, relentless but normal in my experience!

I've got an 8yr old boy who is still prone to being a bit obtuse and whingey at times. But peak time was 4-6.5yrs old. I genuinely found it exasperating!

Now have a 3.5yr old DS2 and yep... he's starting this fun stage too! Lord help me!

Yes @traxt, alas it is normal.

All I can say is "this, too, will pass".

It is very tiresome.
I’ve just seen he loves Peppa Pig? Peppa is a whingey little b*tch 😂 I used to think she was SO rude when my DD was obsessed. She was also super rude to Susie Sheep. Could he be copying her behaviour? They all roll on theirs backs laughing at the end of the episode so your DS might not think it’s a big deal 🙈

A friend had this with her son, and found that by giving him choices when she could, and asking him why he made the particular choice, was definitely beneficial. He used to choose the route they walked to pre-school, and tell her what he noticed along the way - flowers etc, and what he liked. It was great for his observation skills, communication, and learning that he could choose. If they were running late and only one way was fast enough, he had to think through the implications etc. Turned what was a very testing time to a good learning experience for both of them.

I have wondered if peppa was having a negative effect. He used to like Bing and I had to ban that as it exacerbated whining (and mimicking Pando’s ‘Oh- KAAAY’ which I HATE!)

Does he like the Julia Donaldson videos? They’re on Prime and we love them, so calming.
Maybe he could watch one of those (roughly 20 minutes long) and if he wants to watch anything else, steer him towards Bluey (even I love Bluey and I’m early 30’s) 😂

My daughter was an absolute dream until recently (she's 4) which has co-incided with her watching Peppa Pig! Peppa has always been banned in our house up until recently

Make it so he has 2 choices but both are things you want e.g do you want to put your socks or jumper on first? That way they feel more in control

sounds like he would be doing as sheldon cooper did in the big bang theory and argue with the judge about why he is right

Ah the feral fours, if it helps mine were fantastic fives so I had a great year before the sassy sixes 😂

I was going to advise offering a choice so he feels likes he's in control but I see from your follow up posts this sadly doesn't work either. I wonder if just not engaging might help? "I don't want the red ones" "ok" obviously that won't always be the solution as sometimes he will have to get in the car etc but if you pick your battles and give minimal responses of "ok" "that's fine" to the small stuff then you'll have more patience/energy for the big stuff where you can't just not engage?

He seems to have lost interest; shame as he likes all the books.

Emotions are big at that age and they really don't have any control over things. Can you give him some options 'which pair of socks are you going to put on so we can go swimming? The red or the blue'.
'Do want me to help you into the car or Clare you going to climb in yourself?' As you are holding the door open to leave the house. Might help him feel like he has some control whilst still getting what you need done.

I have the same arguments - needs to get dressed so we can go to softplay and meet a friend at X time, he wants to go & see friend but will he get dressed? Oh no! Constant negotiation, bribery, negative consequences then some shouting or sometimes just leaving the house still in his onesie.

Using choices help with a stubborn child, offering options as a distraction "we're going to get dressed now" are you wearing your blue or green jumper? Start undressing while you decide.

Or we're getting into the car now, do you think there will be much traffic? Anything that changes their focus.

They have to muse about something, options gives them an outlet getting you close to your goal.

Id suggest stop making so many direct demands of him. Break tasks down into little steps and make a game of them. So rather than "you need to get dressed so we can go to the pool" - if he doesn't really fancy going swimming, that's going to be difficult for his little brain to get on board with. Breaking the tasks he needs to do into tiny steps is much easier for him to do.

If you've put his clothes out don't say "put your clothes on" or "get dressed" but say "your clothes are there, if you need help then I'll be over here". Tap his clothes to draw his attention to them if he's not doing it rather than nagging verbally.

The goal is to get to the pool but he doesn't want to put his shoes on - so make a game of it like - race mummy to put our shoes on, time him to see how quickly he can do it, etc. Then race mummy to the car, or see what's the funniest walk he can do to the car. Don't say "right ds, put your shoes on." Say "if you want to go to the pool, what do you need to put on your feet before we can go?"

Some children like to have autonomy, choice and control. You're still getting him to do what you want, but in a way that takes the conflict out of the situation and let's him feel in control. This approach is tiring and difficult for you to begin with, but it's better than dealing with rudeness and meltdowns.

Sorry to disappoint you but he does sound very very much like my child who has PDA and these tactics have made our lives much much better and our home is more harmonious.

@jellybe I missed your post, fully agree with you, it works.

Some children just love arguing the toss with you while others are more passive and compliant. Be glad that he's a strong personality and won't grow up to be a walkover! I think the best course of action is to ignore the argumentative comments and whingeing - maybe after one reminder - 'I'm not going to talk to you when you're whingeing, I will wait until you speak nicely' then ignore. I always think with small children, pick your battles but make sure you win them! This means staying calm, being consistent and being prepared to see it through and not give in for the sake of a quiet life. So if he's arguing and complaining, don't engage, be breezy and cheerful 'We're going in the car now, off we go!' and sweep him along with you. Use a tone of voice that is take charge and sounds like you are expecting him to comply, cheerful and confident (even if you don't feel it!)

He sounds like my family members kids. They are very whiney and argumentative. I really wish their mum would be firmer with them and try put a stop to it. It makes it very hard to see them with my children to be honest. As they are always getting upset and whining over something small or don't like what my children are doing, saying or playing with etc.
Sounds like you are doing your best to ignore the silly behaviour. My relative seems to end up comforting them and makes it worse.

I'd say put yourself in the role of leader, not follower. We're leaving - make your way to the door, don't wait for him. We're eating this, put food in middle, he can choose what he wants. Get ready, he gets his clothes, you make way to door.

I've noticed DC is sooo whiny when DH is around (usually panders to him) than when it's just me and DC

But does sound normal tbh

I notice this with my DH as well.

Op my 4 yo son is v similar

Sounds like an absolutely classic four year old. Don't let anyone diagnose them with anything too quickly, possibly it's more worrying if they're very compliant

Oh my 4 yr old is just like this! How headstrong she is, the ability to argue black is white and never back down and complete disinterest in being tricked by ‘having a choice’ is both seriously impressive and frustrating. Such difficult kids to parent, but I’m surviving on the belief that her natural personality will be useful for her in the future!

I don’t subscribe to any specific form of parenting and probably just a mixture of pick your battles, this is happening whether you like it or not parenting, praise, some consequences (but that usually escalates the situation), modelling how to speak to us and unfortunately the occasional shouting (would obv rather not but sometimes you’re just driven to it).

she has many excellent character traits but when they have an iron will they can be testing!