Old(er) men creeping on young women [at work]

[FeFiFamPho]

Today I visited a shop and a lovely young woman, non-native English greeted us [was with DS2].

Later, noticed an older man talking to her about her weekend plans, specifically valentines plans and repeatedly looking down at her chest. I heard comments such as "sure someone must be taking you out", "you're clearly very worthy" etc...
I went over and interrupted, asking for her help. When she broke free and asked what I wanted, I said "nothing, he was just being creepy". I had hesitated interrupting for a minute later than intended due to trying to check whether she did feel uncomfortable, but she was being nothing but polite and friendly back. When I replied to her to say I wanted nothing, I was just interrupting because he was being creepy, she hugged me and said, yes, thank you. And repeated that twice.

I now regret not stepping in a moment sooner. And also, not saying more loudly when I interrupted, so the man could hear.

Would you have stepped in?
Would you have said anything loudly so the man could overhear?

It's stayed with me. Younger me remembers these interactions. Felt uncomfortable, brushed them off, entertained them.
Nowadays, being older, happy to intersect.
Hoping to bring my boys up to never repeat this behaviour.

AIBU: Should not interrupt/jump in
AINBU: Should always jump in and help younger/fellow females?

You don’t understand power dynamics, do you? You may as well say she shouldn’t have mentioned their sex either.

OP, you did the right thing. Many years ago as a 20-something on a train in France, a man sat opposite me masturbating. My French was pretty good - my grandmother was French and although I didn't have anything like a bilingual upbringing I got by very well in most situations. But I realised that I completely lacked the vocabulary to deal with the situation as well as the cultural knowhow to know what to do about it (or describe it). I would have been delighted if someone had stepped in to help out a young foreign woman. Nobody did.

There are some weird comments in this thread, and some that just display the writer’s lack of empathy or ability to imagine someone else’s point of view.

As a woman who was often alone abroad when I was younger, sometimes in places where I didn’t speak the language fluently, I thank everyone like OP who wants to help and protect strangers.

Exactly.

Thanks everyone. Think my point/ question about intervening got lost because I referenced age/gender/nationalities. All were relevant, I felt, due to the power imbalance as some of you understood.

Men/creeps of all genders/ages will push their luck on others to see what they can get away with. He was literally licking his lips trying to find out her Valentines weekend plans. I'm sure we've all been there, in similar circumstances, and it's just frustrating.

He was literally licking his lips?!?!

So many excellent new details to make your point.

Don't be ridiculous

Can you expand on that?

My take is that the customer’s sex, age and that he’s a Brit are all part of an abuse of power on a worker who is young, female and not British.

They are not equals in this scenario and he knows it, as does she.

Denying that simply endorses and enables his behaviour.

Ainbu obviously.

The bit about her being not gym the uk is relevant imo and I will try and explain why I think this.

My dad was a massive creep. He died I. 2016 at over 90.

He was always a creep but in his later years he loved staying in hotels staffed by module east European young women. I know this because I visited him sometimes there.

I am quite sure based on my observations that for I imagine complex cultural reasons that they were outwardly more tolerant of the creeping than British staff. I have rescued a few of them over the years too.

I will be stepping in next time I see this go on word a stranger. I had a thread back along about the female security guard in Aldi whom the creeps are obsessed with.

I completely understand the op.

Exactly this. These attacking posts are essentially sea lioning or trolling—nobody is really so obtuse as to be attacking a woman displaying female solidarity for being a racist patronizing imperial bigot. Come on! These ridiculous posts are just meant to derail the thread and prevent women from showing solidarity and working together to protect each other.

Age = balance of power

Non native = possibly slightly more vulnerable to this kind of shit as not lived with UK customs from being a baby/young child and possibly reluctant to be rude. Possibly have little/no family here and depend on job so can't risk being rude to customer.

Both these factors give the creep an easier time of being creepy.

It's 100% relevant. As above (possibly slightly more vulnerable to this kind of shit as not lived with UK customs from being a baby/young child and possibly reluctant to be rude. Possibly have little/no family here and depend on job so can't risk being rude to customer).

Do you think that the girls/women who are living as captured slaves in sex dens in the UK are mainly British? They are mainly foreign. They don't know this country and it makes it easier to trap them.

Fucking hell, OP has tried to help another woman out of a grim encounter.

Yeah. Sometimes I forget and think I'm just a regular person living in the UK, but I'm often reminded that no matter what I'll always be viewed as a "non native". It's a very, very strange feeling.

I'm sure the OP means no harm, she doesn't mention it as a bad thing, and somehow that makes it worse. If someone's racist, then fine, they'll call me non native because they're racist. But the fact that I am STILL perceived as non native (which I am - but I'd hope I'm more than that?!) even by non racists is extremely strange.

I guess it's what it is. I'm no longer considered a real Greek at home when I visit, and I'll always be a non native here.

Sorry for the off topic, it's just it stung a bit 🙂

< goes away >

You are absolutely right OP.

I am astonished at some of these replies.

As a non native myself, I didn't like reading that sentence. You can remain astonished, or try to imagine it from a non native's perspective. I understand what the OP was trying to do with mentioning it, I'm not thick. It was still clumsy.

So do you think that the young female worker’s not being British (I don’t know her race, the OP doesn’t say) had no bearing on the older British man’s decision to be a creep? To me it seems integral, along with her being young and a woman and a worker. It’s all part of the imbalance of power. Probably it’s the least significant but it’s still part of it.

Sorry, it's quite unfair that I haven't said very good job OP for interfering. The lady must have been grateful. Some men are absolute creeps, here's hoping that things improve in society. Creepy behaviours need to be called out and well done for having the courage and quick thinking to do so ❤️

I have to say that if someone speaks English with a pronounced foreign accent, then it is fair enough to assume that they haven't been here from being a little kid. To treat them unfavorably because of that would clearly be ridiculous, racist, xenophobic etc. But to consider that they may be a softer target for the sexual shite that this woman encountered is fair and reasonable.

Native literally means born somewhere or been there from little/similar. It's a shame that it has negative connotations - because it should literally be a factual descriptor.

The colour of her skin in not a worthy barometer of nationality. All colour and shades of people have been born here since time and memorial. See 'Cheddar Man'

I have checked again and I cannot see anywhere that the OP mentioned skin colour. Care to explain why you brought this up? She just said non-native English speaking. I am pretty sure most English people would be able accurately to determine that from someone's speech, no assumptions needed.

The people who say the ages of the young shop assistant and the creep are "irrelevant " are just batshit.

Oh op you broke the mumsnets rule. Don’t mention age, ethnicity, height, weight, hair colour, shoe size, inside leg measurement!!!!
FFS do some posters just lay in wait all day to jump on people

Non native English speaker just means someone whose mother tongue is not English. I can't see why this is problematic as a factual description.

This!

All the PP’s decrying some sort of racial bullshit need to get a fucking grip..!

If you stuck up for a young woman being letched on, good on you. More people should do this - there are SO many entitled, vile older men out there doing this.

I mentioned it in this instance because felt it was relevant. I have other friends from other countries and do not refer to them as non native.

Is it not incredibly bloody obvious that foreigners, especially young ones working low level jobs, can be more vulnerable, due to lack of local family and support network, less intuitive understanding of the system and police, as well as their rights, less grasp of the sometimes complex English language needed to clearly assert your rights, possible dependencies on visas…

the op clearly explained the situation and did the right thing.

Couldn't agree more.