Old(er) men creeping on young women [at work]

[FeFiFamPho]

Today I visited a shop and a lovely young woman, non-native English greeted us [was with DS2].

Later, noticed an older man talking to her about her weekend plans, specifically valentines plans and repeatedly looking down at her chest. I heard comments such as "sure someone must be taking you out", "you're clearly very worthy" etc...
I went over and interrupted, asking for her help. When she broke free and asked what I wanted, I said "nothing, he was just being creepy". I had hesitated interrupting for a minute later than intended due to trying to check whether she did feel uncomfortable, but she was being nothing but polite and friendly back. When I replied to her to say I wanted nothing, I was just interrupting because he was being creepy, she hugged me and said, yes, thank you. And repeated that twice.

I now regret not stepping in a moment sooner. And also, not saying more loudly when I interrupted, so the man could hear.

Would you have stepped in?
Would you have said anything loudly so the man could overhear?

It's stayed with me. Younger me remembers these interactions. Felt uncomfortable, brushed them off, entertained them.
Nowadays, being older, happy to intersect.
Hoping to bring my boys up to never repeat this behaviour.

AIBU: Should not interrupt/jump in
AINBU: Should always jump in and help younger/fellow females?

Thank you to those understanding why I included non-native refer. I regret it now but genuinely felt it was relevant. She was being so friendly and conversational to him which is why I hesitated for a while.

I am interested how many people intervene in these situations (whatever nationality), the types of responses from the men, and women who have been targeted. I'm not necessarily a crusader, but it's made me think twice. It's usually older women in this particular shop. She is a new volunteer.

I don't need to describe myself as anything. I very rarely get asked where I am from and I certainly wouldn't expect people to refer to me as immigrant, non-english or whatever. I trust that people who make my acquaintance will simply say "I met a woman the other day" and don't feel compelled to infer that "my culture" is somehow different from theirs and make it my defining feature.
In your shoes, I would have probably come up with a random thing I "needed help with" so as not to make the woman more uncomfortable than she needed to be and also to give her an opportunity to go back to the conversation with the bloke if she indeed wanted to. But it's hard to say as I was not there and I can only judge what happened by your (wildly improbable) story.

I have seen worse, to English girls, just from the age of 17 to 19. Worked in a cafe once and one 80 year old proposed to be a sugar daddy to one of my youngsters, described his offer in its entirety, to visit her in her uni city, to buy her a small car and other things in return for something. It was totally crazy. The man looked about 80, and the way she described how he spoke to her, could not be a joke. Who is this normal man to harass sexually ( even though verbally ) a 18 year old as a joke...she said he also was repeatedly looking her up and down multiple times

Yes, I would have intervened and said to the woman, oh is this your dad?

I will always intervene if I think someone is being made uncomfortable. I'm not the most subtle sometimes but I'm still standing to tell the tale (just).

Thank you. Exactly this. I've also lived overseas and genuinely meant no ill-intent of the phrase non-native. I think it was relevant because of how she was being polite and entertaining. My younger niece may well have excused herself, knowing he was a creep- or felt trapped anyway due to being young/in experienced. I really don't know but it's made me think twice about what younger women are experiencing, but ESPECIALLY those who haven't the cultural reference we have if born here. Different country, different norms.

But that's exactly what I did. I interrupted, she came, I said I needed nothing, just thought he was creepy. She had the opportunity to return to him, but instead thanked and hugged me, then stayed with me?

The age or nationality of either party is irrelevant.

Sexual harassment of all and any woman by men needs to stop.

Your OP was absolutely fine because all the details show the power imbalance in play.

Well done for stepping in, you did the right thing.

Anybody who thinks this young woman not being British is irrelevant can't ever have travelled to or lived in another country themselves. Being an outsider makes you far more vulnerable, you might not know the customs and ways of the locals, you might not really understand what they're saying to you. Plus, if you're from a culture where respect towards older people is the norm, you might well find it impossible to tell a man the age of your father or even grandfather to fuck off.

I say well done you! I remember lots of horrid men doing this sort of thing when I was young and painfully shy, including a particularly bad creep who used to come looking for me when I was 18 and working in a shop..he used to admit to only liking teenagers 🤢 I remember always complaining about him to my manager and senior colleagues when I saw him come in looking for me, but no one cared. I wish I'd had someone like you to step in! I'm sure the young lady was very grateful

You did the right thing OP. I will always hang around or occasionally intervene if I think a woman is in danger or being pestered or harassed. I'm currently abroad, and yesterday in the supermarket car park I loitered because an older man who I perceived to be drunk (with a can of beer in his hand) was heading towards a lady putting her shopping in the car.

I got in the car when DH reassured me he'd seen them together earlier and all was well.

As someone who studied at foreign Universities in an age before mobile phones, I agree.

A thousand times this. Which is why I mentioned non-native because I felt it was 100% relevant. I probably, naively, felt everyone would implicitly understand that. Thank you so much to those who have elaborated. Keen to hear from those who haven't even experienced similar, from all sides.

I remember my young woman days and all the uncomfortable 'flirtatious ' one-sided conversations I had from very creepy, much older men. ESPECIALLY when I was staff and PAID to interact. Very difficult to escape from, and now feel I'll be on the lookout for potential rescuees, but difficult to know when it's welcomed or not, hence the hesitation.

All women need to stand up for other women. I've rescued many women especially at bus stops and in nightclubs!

I know. After leaving the shop and driving onwards, felt annoyed that we are still having to go through this. I'll be honest, it's probably only because of recent vocal movements such as #metoo, that I felt empowered to intervene. Then afterwards, incredulous that this is ongoing. Hope we can wipe it out for future generations.

Also wondering whether a call to the manager to flag it might help. I feel, due to the friendliness and beauty of the new volunteer, that this is an issue which will repeat itself.

Yes, I have refrained from saying beautiful, fearing a slaying, but she is. She is very pretty and will undoubtedly attract male attention in the shop. But her friendliness spoke volumes to me, she greeted me and my son instantly when we walked through the door, despite her being at the other side of the shop originally. Other, less well-intentioned people, will mis-interpret her friendliness.

This sounds a bit like one of those "And the whole bus stood up and clapped" sort of threads.

The hugging was odd unless it was her first day at work and she's literally never experienced a letchy customer.

Still, well done anyway.

Totally think it might have been one of her first days/weeks/experiences. I'm a regular customer. She is a recent hire as of last two weeks.

I think might have been.one of her first such experiences in this role.

That's an awful lot of thinking you're doing there.

What are you basing it upon?

Apologies for unintentional derailing of thread. Ignore non-native reference.

Do you question men when they act inappropriately to young women.

If yes, when, is there a line/moment or just jump in?
Are we worried about conflict with the perpetrator/ patronisation of the "victim"?

That was a nice thing to do. I like your adjectives as it tells the story. If you didn't have them someone would be asking you about the age of the man, did the woman seem like a native English speaker etc etc. people are too bloody sensitive when it isn't necessary.

Well, the fact I go in once or twice a week, havent visited in a week, and now she is there. So on that assumption, she has started volunteering in the past week or so?

But how does that mean she hasn't worked anywhere else with the public?

It doesn't.

Her age, and use of language, indicated to me that it might be one of her first roles. A guess on my part
From years of interactions with humans.

Yes, it’s this. I’m surprised any woman doesn’t recognise this.

A young woman abroad is very obviously more vulnerable than one who’s born and brought up there, with family and friends and all kinds of networks.

I often was in that situation when I was young and travelling / working abroad. I would have loved someone like OP to help me out!