To think it's bonkers to not vaccinate against chicken pox

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Especially if you have multiple kids who haven't had it who would probably get it back to back meaning potentially 2-3 weeks off work for parents while waiting for them to scab over.

Genuinely curious as to why people don't vaccinate. It is more expensive to have the time off work than to vaccinate and it's a nasty uncomfortable avoidable illness for kids and a standard vaccine for a lot of the rest of the world. So if you haven't, why not?

Same. Even if the theory had proven correct, I think we'd have still seen parents continue to go for the vaccine privately. The opportunity for our DC to take yet another one for the team isn't particularly attractive, given the events of the last few years.

I am in the Netherlands and here children with chickenpox can just go to school or nursery with chickenpox, unless they are really unwell. Both my children had chickenpox before their first birthday and I didn’t need to get any leave for it. They had it mildly, but when they went to school they never got it again, even when half of the class was having it, so they must have been immune.

I got my DD vaccinated when she was a toddler, even though I couldn't really afford it (just got the first dose) and then a few years later my country added it to the vaccine schedule and she got her 2nd dose. DS had his combined with the MMR I think.

For me it's not just about chickenpox, it's about shingles too - they are far far far less likely to get shingles in the future because they were vaccinated instead of catching it. I had shingles recently, just above my eye, and was very lucky not to have my vision affected. My brother has had shingles 3 times! I am very happy with my decision to prevent that suffering for them.

A two year old died locally here a few years ago from complications as a result of chickenpox.

My eldest child is immunocompromised as a result of chickenpox at the same age. He is constantly picking up infections and needed 11 antibiotics last year. All as a result of contracting chickenpox when he was 2.

Doctor has advised us that when children contract chickenpox under the age of 5, the risk of more severe effects is high, such as the two cases I have outlined above.

My youngest child got the chickenpox vaccine at 13 months. It cost me 160 euro for the two doses. Worth every cent for peace of mind.

My dc were born in a country that heavily pushes chicken pox vaccine but does not include it in their programme so you do have to pay. For this reason I looked in to it and discovered that it isn't the most effective vaccine, that natural immunity is more effective. that it can wear off early and then cause you to no longer be immune at a later age where you then become far more ill than if you caught it younger. I therefore don't vaccinate. Dc caught it at 2 and 5, have a couple of tiny scars between them and probably don't need to worry about it for the rest of their lives . Am happy with my decision

The risk of shingles is less in someone who’s been vaccinated compared to someone who got it in the community though.

As others have said, the CP vaccination doesn’t give the same immunity as vaccinations for other, similar illnesses. It’s highly effective in countries where it’s included in childhood vaccination programmes and therefore herd immunity is established offering additional protection for instances where the immunity wanes.

As it has to be done privately in the uk and the take up is low no herd immunity is established the risk of the vaccine providing protection during childhood that isn’t carried through adolescence into adulthood - when it’s a more severe illness or even causing complications if caught when pregnant.

This was the reason we didn’t vaccinate and were happier that our daughter caught the wild strain when she was four. We were mindful, however, that had she not caught CP during childhood, then the benefits of a vaccination would have been greater and we would have probably gone down that route.

For us it’s money. We could afford it if we cut back in other areas and do plan to do it but we don’t have the spare cash to just pay for two lots in one go. And I don’t feel like the risk is worse massively cutting back in other areas for.

The belief that the vaccine would lead to an increase in shingles has now be debunked after long term studies.

That's why the JCVI has recently recommended it be added to the UK vaccination schedule.

There are multiple countries in Europe - Germany, Spain and Italy among them - where the CP vaccine is included in childhood vaccinations

Of course it’s stupid not to. I’d go so far as to say if you’re a parent, it’s your responsibility to inform yourself that these things exist. One quick Google and all that…

And getting the varicella vaccine reduces the risk of shingles later in life, too.

Plus, a shingles vaccine exists.

I don't know why that isn't done. I'm not a doctor or a health scientist, so I don't have the evidence to judge.

No, it's not bonkers.

The less serious any given illness is, on average, the less obvious the benefits of vaccination are, both individually and on a population basis.

Individually because there are always some risks, such as an allergic reaction, infection at the needle site, or a contaminated batch of vaccine. These are rare, but can be serious. The trade off when they happen though, is against what is normally a mild illness. So it's much more of a question whether the risk benefit analysis is really positive.

On a population level the cost comes in to it, at least for public funding. Vaccination of a whole population is expensive, that money could be used for many things. Is it best spent on vaccination against an illness that rarely has long term serious effects? Quite a lot of jurisdictions would say no on this, there are too many other important uses for those funds.

Then there are all the issues around unknowns - for example, there seems to be an ever increasing number of vaccinations recommended. Could there be effects of consequences of that - maybe. And we might not know for years, or ever - look how long it took them to discover why leukemia is more common in developed countries with good health care, or the effects of depo-provera. Many people and many doctors have a general rule that all interventions, or sets of interventions, may carry complex or long term risks we can't easily assess, and so a good rule of thumb is not to intervene for relatively mild illnesses.

I would also say that I think that while it's true that missing work for an ill child has economic consequences, that is actually a poor reason for giving (or not giving) a health intervention to a child.

It is included now

It's not included yet

JCVI has recommended it be included so hopefully it will be accepted and rolled out in the next couple of years

As it has to be done privately in the uk and the take up is low no herd immunity is established the risk of the vaccine providing protection during childhood that isn’t carried through adolescence into adulthood - when it’s a more severe illness or even causing complications if caught when pregnant.
This was the reason we didn’t vaccinate

Same. Immunity from the vaccine isn't lifelong and so vaccinated children are at risk in adulthood unless they continue to get vaccinated. My understanding anyway.

I'm in Germany and it's part of routine vaccinations here. I am definitely not sad about not having to go through chicken pox twice with my kids.

Somebody had to trot out the bullshit about vaccines and autism didn't they?

For anyone who's still confused about this - there is no evidence whatsoever to support this assertion. None.

The doctor who suggested it was struck off as a result of his nonesense claims.

Measles kills and mains people. Not vaccinating your children is abuse.

This post is written from the point of view of financial and educational privilege.

My son was vaccinated as a toddler when we were still living in the States. A year after we arrived in the UK, he started nursery where there was a massive outbreak of chicken pox that winter. He literally was the last child standing, and when I had said he was vaccinated (this was 14 years ago). I had a lot of baffled "Why would you do that?" type of reactions from school staff and parents alike. Seemed like a no-brainer to me, but I do appreciate that it is not in everyone's budget to have it done privately.

I imagine as long as it is not in the NHS schedule of vaccines. these attitudes will persist.

It's very expensive for one.. so definitely financial reasons I would argue as one reason

No, it's written from the point of view that if you have kids you need to educate yourself on medical progress and put £10 a month aside so that they can be protected by the time they are 15 months old.

You are being so ignorant. Why can't you understand that some people haven't got £10 a month.

Because I just don't believe that there's absolutely nothing they can change to find it. Especially when it's over something so important as the health of their child.

But you've openly said that your job is more important than the health of your child and your main reason for vaccinating is so that you don't have to take time off work.