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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Teacher says dc can’t use ‘more advanced’ answers

176 replies

Purplyoctopus · 14/02/2025 15:26

dc is in year 7 & is being marked down for putting ‘extra’ information on their schoolwork where their previous (very academic) school taught them beyond the ks2 curriculum they know how to answer questions in a more advanced manner than what is expected at year 7.

This is especially a problem in maths where dc will use a more complicated way to answer a question because it’s faster and still correct.

But teacher wants them to put all of their workings and use the more basic methods they teach in year 7 to find the same answer and has explained that one day dc will indeed be answering these questions in the way they are already doing them but not until later in secondary school. I find this so so daft. Aibu to say carry on as you are to dc as they need to know it for future anyway or am I missing something?!

OP posts:
maddening · 16/02/2025 08:22

If you can't move to a more academic school I would get a tutor to keep learning at the advanced level - especially at.gsce for subjects they want to do at A level it can bridge the gap between gcse and a level meaning you get a head start ime

BlueSilverCats · 16/02/2025 08:24

That teacher doesn’t want the challenge of dealing with a ‘bright’ pupil. They are trying to get your child to dim their light.

How can you claim this, when even OP isn't entirely sure what the issue is or that there is an issue.

TemporaryPosition · 16/02/2025 08:26

Anotherparkingthread · 14/02/2025 15:41

The maths teacher probably doesn't understand it lol 😂

My thought too

noblegiraffe · 16/02/2025 08:27

From the sounds of it this kid isn't using an 'advanced' method, he's not way ahead of the class, he doesn't need to be taken out of school. It's not something the maths teacher doesn't understand - because it's all Y7 maths - it's something where there are a couple of different methods and the teacher wants him to use a particular method at this point, which is fine.

Mere1 · 16/02/2025 13:02

Pillarsofsalt · 14/02/2025 15:28

Play the game, jump the hoop. That is also a skill.

At GCSE, you are required to show all workings to gain all marks available. Best to establish a routine at the outset.
Also, it’s always good to assume teacher knows best, in general, whether or not it is classed as an ‘academic’ school. All have the same end goals. Obedience is a valuable trait.

Mere1 · 16/02/2025 13:03

TemporaryPosition · 16/02/2025 08:26

My thought too

Oh dear. What a presumption.

poetryandwine · 16/02/2025 13:24

TemporaryPosition · 16/02/2025 08:26

My thought too

@Anotherparkingthread , @TemporaryPosition , With the best will in the world, assuming the teacher is weak in maths could be unfair and unhelpful, and I write as a STEM academic who well remembers the frustrations of being held back in Maths.

It is certainly possible that you are both correct and I don’t discount that. However the only example provided by OP is at best capable of varying interpretations. Thinking you are advanced because you have a rote knowledge of factor trees, for example, isn’t a particularly useful self conception.

If DS does in fact possess a real understanding I hope the teacher will encourage him to explore deeper properties of factorisation. In today’s classroom that is asking a lot, though.

TemporaryPosition · 16/02/2025 15:12

Mere1 · 16/02/2025 13:03

Oh dear. What a presumption.

Why? My daughters primary teacher teaches maths at high school to S1, 2 and 3s now. No degree in maths. She just applied as she didn't enjoy primary teaching after 6 months. You need no more than a nat 5 in maths to get on that course.

poetryandwine · 16/02/2025 15:44

TemporaryPosition · 16/02/2025 15:12

Why? My daughters primary teacher teaches maths at high school to S1, 2 and 3s now. No degree in maths. She just applied as she didn't enjoy primary teaching after 6 months. You need no more than a nat 5 in maths to get on that course.

Of course this happens. But we have no evidence that it has happened in this case, nor have you given us any statistics to back up a claim that it is to be expected.

TemporaryPosition · 16/02/2025 16:14

poetryandwine · 16/02/2025 15:44

Of course this happens. But we have no evidence that it has happened in this case, nor have you given us any statistics to back up a claim that it is to be expected.

Even if I produced stats that demonstrated this would likely be the case 99% of the time - we could only speculate on this instance anyway. Because we don't know. But I can still entertain thoughts in my own head that this might be the case.

SwanSong1 · 16/02/2025 16:29

I suggest your son listens to the teacher, instead of trying to be a little smart arse!

catlover123456789 · 16/02/2025 18:49

If they are getting to the right answer and showing their working I am not sure what the issue is. If anything, if your child is year 7 but answering questions at a higher level, then I'd say they need to be in a higher year for maths. I am not sure if that's possible but if they are gifted at maths they needs to be stimulated and challenged and encouraged to learn and explore. Otherwise they will just get bored. Being gifted at maths should be encouraged! Does the maths teacher have at least A-Level Maths?

BlueSilverCats · 16/02/2025 19:13

catlover123456789 · 16/02/2025 18:49

If they are getting to the right answer and showing their working I am not sure what the issue is. If anything, if your child is year 7 but answering questions at a higher level, then I'd say they need to be in a higher year for maths. I am not sure if that's possible but if they are gifted at maths they needs to be stimulated and challenged and encouraged to learn and explore. Otherwise they will just get bored. Being gifted at maths should be encouraged! Does the maths teacher have at least A-Level Maths?

There's nothing in OP's posts that show her kid is actually gifted at maths. The one example she used isn't that straightforward and even she doesn't fully understand/remember it properly.

catlover123456789 · 16/02/2025 20:27

BlueSilverCats · 16/02/2025 19:13

There's nothing in OP's posts that show her kid is actually gifted at maths. The one example she used isn't that straightforward and even she doesn't fully understand/remember it properly.

That's why I said IF they are gifted at maths.
Kinda sounds like they are if this is a recurring issue.

llizzie · 16/02/2025 23:18

On countdown, the workings out are definitely required. Whatever examination Board that sets the questions and marks the papers require is presumably what the teacher is teaching the pupils to do.

ILikeDifficultSums · 17/02/2025 01:17

maddening · 16/02/2025 08:22

If you can't move to a more academic school I would get a tutor to keep learning at the advanced level - especially at.gsce for subjects they want to do at A level it can bridge the gap between gcse and a level meaning you get a head start ime

Definitely not.

With a bright child who picks things up quickly, go wide not ahead, ie more challenging questions and investigations on the current topic.

Or, off-syllabus Maths topics which the child finds interesting. There are plenty of aspects of Maths which aren’t covered by GCSE but which are accessible to a bright mathematical child.

Cambridge’s NRICH programme is an example of somewhere to look for free resources.

This is what I’d hope an experienced Maths teacher to offer when a student has shown they fully understand the current topic. If the child doesn’t have an experienced teacher who is confident in their Maths knowledge, then introduce them to something like NRICH out of school either yourself or with a tutor.

If a child has covered the GCSE syllabus by age 13, for example, possibly just at a superficial level, what are they going to do in school lessons?

Mere1 · 17/02/2025 06:24

ILikeDifficultSums · 17/02/2025 01:17

Definitely not.

With a bright child who picks things up quickly, go wide not ahead, ie more challenging questions and investigations on the current topic.

Or, off-syllabus Maths topics which the child finds interesting. There are plenty of aspects of Maths which aren’t covered by GCSE but which are accessible to a bright mathematical child.

Cambridge’s NRICH programme is an example of somewhere to look for free resources.

This is what I’d hope an experienced Maths teacher to offer when a student has shown they fully understand the current topic. If the child doesn’t have an experienced teacher who is confident in their Maths knowledge, then introduce them to something like NRICH out of school either yourself or with a tutor.

If a child has covered the GCSE syllabus by age 13, for example, possibly just at a superficial level, what are they going to do in school lessons?

All true. Let’s hope OP is correct in the assumed capability of the child-and the teacher.

maddening · 17/02/2025 06:38

Mere1 · 17/02/2025 06:24

All true. Let’s hope OP is correct in the assumed capability of the child-and the teacher.

Which is why an outside opinion eg a tutor might be beneficial in that case.-.no paremt could confirm that either the school/teacher was shortcoming and failing to stretch an advanced pupil or that the teacher had observed and made a full and proper assessment so an outside view is needed.

scalt · 17/02/2025 07:34

I tutor maths, and sometimes I spend more time training people to pass exams, rather than how to do maths.

Sadly, the reality of the world is box-ticking, and having to do it they way the examiners want. Sometimes, I've had to train pupils to do it the "prescribed" way. I meet people who do A-level maths who can do mental arithmetic much faster than I can, and do lots of algebra in their heads, but they often do badly in exams, because they don't write things down. These people can be harder to teach than those who struggle with maths.

When I was a pupil at school, I remember being told off for using methods we hadn't been taught yet. For instance, "what is the 8th triangular number?" We were taught to work it out as 1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8. I knew that it can also be worked out at 8 x 9 / 2, but I was told off for doing this.

I think the thing to do is reassure your dc that it's great that they know more advanced methods, and they will be able to use them later: year 7 is early days, and they have to get used to following the instructions, and doing things the way the teacher tells them. The time for taking more initiative will come with GCSE and A-level. In exams, it is vital to follow the instructions. A-level questions often say "By using method xyz, or otherwise..." If it says "or otherwise", they can use any method they see fit.

In most subjects, using initiative and doing their own critical thinking comes in later years, and lots of people find this difficult: up to then, they were spoon-fed which method to use. Your dc will reap the benefits of this later.

BallerinaRadio · 17/02/2025 07:46

If your child is as 'advanced' as you make out then picking up the 'basic' method shouldn't be an issue.

So rather than making an issue of it, I'd just be advising them to do it the way the teacher has asked. It's not a big issue at all really, and it's great you're child had an alternative method too.

poetryandwine · 17/02/2025 09:17

I agree completely with PPs who suggest that a gifted child wishing to do more maths should go wide and deep rather than advance.

And I second the suggestion to investigate NRICH, which is excellent.

thirdfiddle · 17/02/2025 09:52

Primary school parents evening. "Serpents kid has a very large vocabulary for his age" Smug mum 'er, yes well, he reads a lot and we all talk a lot' Teacher "can you get him to rein it in a bit?" Deep breath. Overall was a lovely school which served him well.

This made me smile. It was something we were working on with DD in year 6. Her writing was stuffed to the gills with sophisticated vocabulary and complicated sentence structures, which disrupted the flow and was often inappropriate for the voice or context of what she was writing. Toning down was definitely needed!

Purplyoctopus · 17/02/2025 16:21

@ILikeDifficultSums thank you dc wants to do things like maths olympiads in future so they practice a lot of maths for fun.

dc is struggling having come from a private academic prep and we couldn’t afford the vat so moved them into current school which isn’t academic at all so maybe they just had to adjust a bit more to this school. Its not the only subject they’re being told they need to do things differently but their old school had excellent gcse results so I don’t think overall it would end up being a negative thing

OP posts:
miraxxx · 17/02/2025 17:15

RedHelenB · 14/02/2025 16:03

Learning to do exactly as you've been asked is also a useful skill.
.

The number of people parroting this is part of the problem. I have some experience in teaching maths in Singapore. My thoughts are that pri.ary school maths teachers want an easy life and are reluctant to take time to analyse more innovative or advanced maths techniques. What is important is to show logical steps to problem solving, not every basic computation. I have had gifted students - definitely better than me - write compressed unusual solutions that were 100% correct. I simply had to take the time to look at the solution more closely and NOT mark by rote.
Maths learning is in a dire straits because of incompetent teaching that demands compliance with lowest demoninator.

wherearemypastnames · 17/02/2025 17:31

I recall getting told off for something like 11/2 =5.5
I should have done 5 remainder 1

However the teacher hadn't said that , just expected me to know that's what he wanted

And why told off so much I still don't know - disproportionate

And why shouldn't a child learn maths as fun? Why restrict what a child does so as not to upset a teacher - a good teacher will be able to manage different capabilities