Teacher says dc can’t use ‘more advanced’ answers

[Purplyoctopus]

dc is in year 7 & is being marked down for putting ‘extra’ information on their schoolwork where their previous (very academic) school taught them beyond the ks2 curriculum they know how to answer questions in a more advanced manner than what is expected at year 7.

This is especially a problem in maths where dc will use a more complicated way to answer a question because it’s faster and still correct.

But teacher wants them to put all of their workings and use the more basic methods they teach in year 7 to find the same answer and has explained that one day dc will indeed be answering these questions in the way they are already doing them but not until later in secondary school. I find this so so daft. Aibu to say carry on as you are to dc as they need to know it for future anyway or am I missing something?!

ive noticed that sometimes DD’s math will bring back an older technique to refresh students on that method because it is about to be used in a more complicated way. It isn’t always a matter of the curriculum being behind at one school.

now it might be at yours. Dd has had the benefit of one consistent curriculum even if she has had some appallingly bad teachers hence my need to be so involved. (And yes, that wasn’t just my opinion, when we were deciding which maths courses she should take next we went and met with the instructors of each option to ask about their teaching philosophies. As soon as we started asking questions, they asked us if our child had been in classes with X and Y the last couple of years. We said yes. They told us not to worry, they would undo the damage.)

I think maths teaching today is better than it was for my generation and teaches a range of techniques that can form building blocks to other more complex work.

I remember two separate periods during school life where a few parents complained about maths teaching, feeling their children were taking backward steps. For me, I trusted the teachers and the process. What this meant was my child who always did well at maths, absolutely soared when it came to GCSE and A Level as they had so many tools in their box and such a thorough understanding.

The children whose parents had pushed for advanced work did well but possibly not as well as their early potential suggested.

I think maths is a subject where it’s easy as a parent of a capable child to push for the next advanced thing for the fear they’ll become bored and lose interest. In fact consolidation and sideways learning really lays the foundations for future success and its important to reinforce this thinking with your child.

I think you will get better answers if you specify the question.

This thread is making me realise how much maths I've forgotten!

I feel for your DD. I was the same way in maths. I actually thought I was poor at it for ages, until I got one teacher who realised that I wasn't bad at it, I just worked things out my own way and didn't plod. That said, you probably won't be able to argue with the teacher. I would frame it to your daughter as just keeping the school happy, rather than her doing anything wrong. And then roll your eyes to the heavens.

Tell them that’s what they have to do for baby (school) maths and get them some extra tuition / do more advanced stuff at home / encourage self learning. Maths is awesome and school goes SO SLOWLY for someone with a natural aptitude. Encourage it like you would a talent in sport or drama or photography or any of the other million things that are not “core curriculum”.

Part of education (and life) is knowing what information is required and what form it should take. Knowing how something should be presented is an important skill to have and one that will be very useful for their entire life.

Put it that way to them and help them to view it as part of learning.

I learned to drive in America.

When I had to take my test here to get a UK license I did a lesson basically to learn how to pass the test.
The instructor was insisting I do things the way he said.
I said I can already drive though.
He said you can do it how you want but you'll never pass the test.

Sometimes you just need to get the marks the way they want even though it feels like your way/the end result is the same or better.

Good life lesson.

Maybe make an appointment with the head of maths department (without complaining) but explain that DC has a particular aptitude and is there a way to encourage them?

You need to speak to the HoD to find out why her expectations are what they are

OP can you give an example of the kind of question, the basic method and the more advanced method?

Reread the post. OP's child IS showing their workings using the methods they were taught in grammar school, but the teacher at their new comprehensive is telling them to dial it back and use more basic methods.

I wonder what aspects are different. I have a friend who qualified in the US and she's scarily bad - doesn't know how to use roundabouts or motorways - maybe that's just her though.

I agree. That's the sort of attitude that made me want to move schools.

I think it would be unreasonable to tell your DC they should keep doing it the more advanced way. If the school will be streaming based on their in-class grades at some point then it's important to tell them to play the game or they may find themselves stuck in a lower attaining class and even more annoyed. If the won't affect that and you are absolutely certain they have mastered whatever technique the teacher is covering then telling them it's up to them but their teacher is still going to mark it down, is fine.

You aren't going to change that teacher (who sounds like they aren't differentiating the work enough, but it's hard to tell), so whatever you or we say isn't going to help them get taught at the level they're at. It's just whether they get good marks in the class.

I am concerned by your statement that they "can't understand" why they're going backwards. I get them not liking going backwards and being frustrated by it. But a Yr 7 should be plenty old enough to understand that a teacher doesn't want to be teaching two different classes at once even though if it doesn't suit DC (and I get why it doesn't suit them, I spent a lot of secondary school maths bored to tears because it went so slowly, really frustrating). If they really can't understand it you probably need to delve into that. If they're just obstinate about it then their emotional maturity and/or socialization may need a bit of attention, depending on how they're framing the issue.

You should always show your working as that will get point, especially if you accidentally write the wrong answer but showed the right working (easy to do if under stress in an exam).

How can they be more advanced workings if they’re tacking the Y7 curriculum? It’s usually the opposite, using more compact methods because you can do much of the calculating in your head.

As a Maths teacher, I can understand some of where the teacher is coming from here. Our mark schemes are so prescriptive that I have to see evidence of some things in order to award a mark. That said, if a pupil reaches the correct answer, they still get the full marks for the question.

It depends what you mean by 'more advanced' methods though, to be honest. If I need you to work out something 'using x method' and you haven't demonstrated you can do this, then I may not be able to award the mark for that specific skill. That you have a different skill to reach the same conclusion isn't relevant in that context.

Maybe you’d like to reread the OPs posts - she doesn’t say her DC went to a grammar school and is now in a comp. I inferred that they were in an ‘academic’ primary school last year.

At some point your DC will sit an exam, in order to gain a GCSE ( is that what they're called now?). That exam will test that he knows, and can apply, Method A. If he uses Method B instead, he will not be demonstrating what is required and he will not get the points for that question. Despite how brilliant he is.

It really isn't rocket science.

My daughter is really bad for finding a more complicated way of doing things, and it has caused problems for her.

She should be capable of doing it the way she is being taught. If that's what she is being asked to do, that's the task the teacher has set.

Actually on the whole the GCSE doesn't tend to care about which method if it works correctly. They tend to say 'solve using Y method or otherwise'.

Y6 SATs on the other hand I believe do require certain methods.

I'm a secondary maths teacher and I'm struggling to think of an example where I would stop a child using 'a more advanced method'. The quadratic formula example is a good one, or possibly some percentage methods? Either way, if a method is mathematically valid and the child is confident in using it I wouldn't be discouraging it.
If you are able to share any specific examples I may revise my opinion!

I would suggest doing it both ways so that she doesn't forget how to do the advanced way, while giving the teacher what they're looking for. Perhaps that will help your DD from feeling that she's going backwards.

Sometimes, you have to appease the person giving out the marks even if you profoundly disagree with them. That is a lesson too!

For some exams, they’ll expect a certain working out. Now they can’t make you use it but if a question has three points at stake; 1 for the correct answer, 1 for the working out and 1 for the working out they want you to use, then you could be missing easy points .

What other subjects does it happen in?

I would contact the school for further explanation and advice.

We often talk about kids in the UK having too much school pressure. But I also see issues at the other end. Bright kids and their parents being made to feel as if they are somehow ‘getting above themselves’ if they want to stretch the child who is enthusiastic and genuinely advanced. This doesn’t apply to my kids who do well but are not super clever, but I have seen that some schools don’t really want to ‘indulge’ the more clever and unusually gifted children.