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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Teacher says dc can’t use ‘more advanced’ answers

176 replies

Purplyoctopus · 14/02/2025 15:26

dc is in year 7 & is being marked down for putting ‘extra’ information on their schoolwork where their previous (very academic) school taught them beyond the ks2 curriculum they know how to answer questions in a more advanced manner than what is expected at year 7.

This is especially a problem in maths where dc will use a more complicated way to answer a question because it’s faster and still correct.

But teacher wants them to put all of their workings and use the more basic methods they teach in year 7 to find the same answer and has explained that one day dc will indeed be answering these questions in the way they are already doing them but not until later in secondary school. I find this so so daft. Aibu to say carry on as you are to dc as they need to know it for future anyway or am I missing something?!

OP posts:
CosyLemur · 14/02/2025 17:58

My son is currently working on old GCSE maths papers as revision and quite often the question will be using x method work out .....
So yes your DC needs to what the teacher tells them

MolkosTeenageAngst · 14/02/2025 17:59

Is it stated in the question which method he needs to use?

If the problem is simply solve 86 x 14 then it’s reasonable that he uses any way to find the answer. If the problem states ‘use the grid method to solve 86 x 14’ then he needs to use the grid method even if he prefers to do a different method such as long multiplication. It’s fine for him to have a preference regarding which method he wants to use but sometimes the lesson objective isn’t really about solving the sums using any method you like, it’s about showing proficiency in a specific method. Your DS can’t just decide he isn’t going to engage in some methods because he has a preference, just as he can’t decide in English not to engage in poetry because he prefers prose or in PE not to engage in tennis because his chosen sport is football.

crankytoes · 14/02/2025 18:02

TeenToTwenties · 14/02/2025 15:34

In other subjects you only get marks for what the question asks, not for extraneous info, however interesting.

Yes but in maths it's not extraneous information. It's just more advanced way of doing it.

You will find in gcse and a-level sciences you learn things that are not actually mathematically correct. But it's been simplified for school. When you get to uni you learn the school way was not just simpler. It was actually technically not correct. It would be ludicrous to he marked as wrong at school if you put the actual proper answer. But you are. It's insane.

veryverytiredmummy · 14/02/2025 18:09

Maths Graduate here.
There's nothing worse than being held back when you're bright. He's a right to fulfill his potential whatever that potential is.

Please do not let him be forced to do it at the pace of the children behind him for no good reason. He will become disillusioned and his maths will suffer far worse later.

You do though need to understand what he's doing, what the other method is and whether some more complicated maths later might rely on the easier method.

For example long division is 'easier' than short division but you need the principles of long division later when you come to divide algebraic equations.

You need to speak/email the teacher (I know that can be hard in High School but go through the main email if you have to).

You need to understand why it's important that they do it the easy way.
If it's a case of 'following the rules' then get arsey. Making a bright kid follow mindless rules will just destroy his love of the subject and likely make him destructive. They're are enough mindless rules to follow in any school to teach him that skill.

But be open minded.

If there's a proper reason, you may be able to find a compromise like they'll do the first 2 or 3 the easy way and the rest the more advanced way.

You also need to talk to him about the necessity of either following petty rules or being proactive about seeing if there's another way so that he doesn't think no times apply to him! You'll also need to remind him for any school tests he has to do the easy method or he might fail and get put in a lower set.

Also are they set yet? It may be a case of him waiting a bit until that happens. If you explain that to him he'll at least know it's not for too much longer.
Good luck.

ILikeDifficultSums · 14/02/2025 18:09

Like the Maths teachers above, I would like to see an example of what you mean.

Some primary schools teach several different methods to solve a problem, eg a subtraction. Once the student has mastered them all, by some stage in secondary school they are then free to choose the one which works best for the numbers in the question or the one they prefer.

Likewise, older students may learn three ways to solve quadratic equations by hand - factorising, completing the square and using the formula. Each has its value, and is useful in different circumstances, as is “type it into your graph calculator.”

At A level, in my experience, a question which says “Using (this method) or otherwise” is giving the student a big hint to use (this method), probably because it’s easiest, but if you can’t, then another way could also earn full marks.

Also, in my experience but apparently unlike that of some previous posters, unless the method is stated in the question, any fully-explained and valid method with the correct answer will earn full marks. With a wrong answer the teacher/examiner will have to go through the solution step by step to follow the method and to find any mistakes. It could still earn method marks if it’s a workable method with an arithmetical error in it.
That’s why Maths marking isn’t the fast simple ticking process some people think it is.

It has taken me so long to type this that the thread has probably moved on.

Hiphopopotamonster · 14/02/2025 18:10

It’s all so depressing! Partly the OP about the school but more so all the comments!

‘Just jump through the hoops - good life lesson.’

‘The most important thing is that he listens to the teacher and does exactly what’s asked’

All this ‘don’t rock the boat’ narrative. Don’t use common sense. Just listen and obey. Then we wonder why we have adults who struggle standing up for themselves, or get themselves into unequal power relationships. Why we have people who struggle to use their creativity and common sense in life and need to be micromanaged and spoon fed.

its all this kind of nonsense that makes me want to go off grid and homeschool. Absolute insanity. We’re just training drones at this point.

Pottedpalm · 14/02/2025 18:15

@ILikeDifficultSums is correct.
I wish the OP would come back and give some examples!

skyscrapersinging · 14/02/2025 18:17

I think it’s just a feature of the “teaching to tests” style of education that we have. Having had a child go all the way thru to A level, there are certain students who do really well because they’ve learned to “play the game” and just answer the question that is asked, even if it seems “basic” to them. Never fear, your brighter kid will shine later on, when independent thought is required.

SpanThatWorld · 14/02/2025 18:17

CowboyJoanna · 14/02/2025 17:11

Reread the post. OP's child IS showing their workings using the methods they were taught in grammar school, but the teacher at their new comprehensive is telling them to dial it back and use more basic methods.

Child is in Y7 so highly unlikely that they've been at a grammar and now moved to a comprehensive

KrisAkabusi · 14/02/2025 18:18

Hiphopopotamonster · 14/02/2025 18:10

It’s all so depressing! Partly the OP about the school but more so all the comments!

‘Just jump through the hoops - good life lesson.’

‘The most important thing is that he listens to the teacher and does exactly what’s asked’

All this ‘don’t rock the boat’ narrative. Don’t use common sense. Just listen and obey. Then we wonder why we have adults who struggle standing up for themselves, or get themselves into unequal power relationships. Why we have people who struggle to use their creativity and common sense in life and need to be micromanaged and spoon fed.

its all this kind of nonsense that makes me want to go off grid and homeschool. Absolute insanity. We’re just training drones at this point.

Or watch The Karate Kid and see why a teacher making you do seemingly pointless tasks might make you a better student in the long run!

whatawonderfultime · 14/02/2025 18:18

That's always what happens with these things, I went to primary school in the 1990s and someone in my class was told off because he was talking about splitting atoms and the teacher was trying to teach that an atom was the smallest thing.

It's a shame but it's one of the reasons why it's all about memory and gaming the system rather than actual intelligence.

Deneke · 14/02/2025 18:23

Maths teacher here. Please tell us the question and the two methods. You may be reasonable or unreasonable depending on what the question and methods are.

MissRoseDurward · 14/02/2025 18:23

‘The most important thing is that he listens to the teacher and does exactly what’s asked’

Because the teacher wants him to show that he understands and can do the method she has taught the class. What's so hard about that?

HoarFrostedWorld · 14/02/2025 18:23

Sometimes children are taught a particular way of laying out a question that works, but they have no idea why.
Others are taught to do it more slowly/in a more complicated way, so that they understand it, and then they move on to an easier layout.
Children who can do the second type of layout aren't necessarily understanding why - they might be, or they might not be. If they aren't, it leads to problems later.

One example - children are taught to 'balance' algebraic equations by adding 3 to both sides, or whatever, which means that a 'minue 3' on one side is cancelled out. Eventually, they realise that this is the same as move that term to the other side of the equation and changing the sign, but they understand why this is so. If they are just taught to move it to the other side and change the sign as a rule, then they get confused later on about why and how, and often forget to change the sign.

Or cross multiplying fractions. This works if you have fractions on both sides of an equal sign, and no other terms. You can just cross multiply, and it will work. But children who don't know why this works tend to overuse the technique and start cross multiplying any two fractions they see near each other! They don't understand that they are just multiplying both sides of the equation by each denominator and cancelling. Eventually, once they understand that, cross multiplying is a qucik way of doing it.

Going back to basics can also prepare children for a harder topic. Usually they stop doing 'grid multiplication' in the middle of primary school, and use a more efficient column method. But in secondary school, they might revisit the old grid method to multiply two-digit numbers, so that they then understand why they have to mutliply out double brackets by multiply both terms of the first bracket by both terms of the second.

They might go back to using tables of values and plotting co-ordinates, in order to understand what the gradient and y-intercept are in the equations. Later on, they can plot the lines using just the gradient and intercept, but sometimes they might be asked to specifically do this using a table of values, as it shows other skills and promotes understanding of things like where the points on the line come from and how to tell if something is on the line.

Those are just a few examples of things I can think of where doing a more advanced method might not be what the teacher is wanting them to do at a particular point. It could be that they children are far enough ahead that they do in fact understand the concept well enough to be using the quicker or more efficient ways, but the teacher won't necessarily be able to check that, so it's easier to get them to do it the way everyone else is, to make sure gaps don't develop.

HiptotheHopp · 14/02/2025 18:24

Purplyoctopus · 14/02/2025 16:04

@Ponderingwindow i think our problem is more that dc has done the full learning so now uses the more advance technique. They can do the basic technique but can’t understand why they’re ’going backwards’ in their maths learning. They can do the basic technique but prefer the more efficient workings as they’re faster (and they love maths so just do it that way)

If they're that advanced I'm sure they can understand "you have to show you can use this method as well.as the other one"it's not complicated

TeenToTwenties · 14/02/2025 18:28

A pp just mentioned the grid method for multiplication v a more compact one.
I think that is quite a good example, as you could nicely use the grid method for expanding algebraic brackets. So knowing the students know the grid method could be quite helpful.

theteachesofleeches · 14/02/2025 18:32

I had this with DS I asked "Do you want him to fake it?" and she did. So he did. And DS learned that sometimes your boss is a fool that you have to obey until you move on.

Grammarnut · 14/02/2025 18:40

No. Have DC do the work as requested. That is also part of passing examinations and is a skill worth honing.

MellersSmellers · 14/02/2025 18:41

Anotherparkingthread · 14/02/2025 15:41

The maths teacher probably doesn't understand it lol 😂

Yes, I agree
As a Yr 7 Maths teacher I wouldn't be surprised if he/she studied a completely different subject at Uni. Poss even humanities.
Dumbing down for a child who's very competent is surely a way to squeeze all the joy out of the subject.
And OP says the DC method is what they will learn later anyway, so assuming that would be taight pre-GCSE then all comments about showing your workings for the current "Simplified" method are irrelevant.

Goody2ShoesAndTheFilthyBeast · 14/02/2025 18:41

theteachesofleeches · 14/02/2025 18:32

I had this with DS I asked "Do you want him to fake it?" and she did. So he did. And DS learned that sometimes your boss is a fool that you have to obey until you move on.

Another important lesson to learn

Grammarnut · 14/02/2025 18:42

Anotherparkingthread · 14/02/2025 15:41

The maths teacher probably doesn't understand it lol 😂

The maths teacher probably does. It's only year 7. Why should he/she not. But the point is that in an exam all the working must be shown, and this carries markes. Just 'getting the sum right' doesn't cut the mustard.

Anotherparkingthread · 14/02/2025 18:47

Grammarnut · 14/02/2025 18:42

The maths teacher probably does. It's only year 7. Why should he/she not. But the point is that in an exam all the working must be shown, and this carries markes. Just 'getting the sum right' doesn't cut the mustard.

I sat my math GCSE at 14 because I was very advanced, and this was at the most ghetto school you can imagine in the UK.

You are wrong.

noblegiraffe · 14/02/2025 18:49

Another maths teacher here who wants to see examples of what is meant by these ‘more advanced’ methods. Generally in maths we just have ‘different methods’ and if they get you the right answer it doesn’t matter which method you use.

I mean, you could use the sine rule (grade 7/8) to answer a right angled trig question (grade 5) but that would be overkill rather than ‘more advanced’.

I’m struggling to think of how this might be an issue with Y7 content though.

SoNiceToComeHomeTo · 14/02/2025 18:50

Put it to DC as a challenge. Yes, they know another way to do this but the challenge is learning the new way and also learning to show the working out in a way that gets them full mars.
These will be invaluable skills for later life.

Grammarnut · 14/02/2025 18:56

Anotherparkingthread · 14/02/2025 18:47

I sat my math GCSE at 14 because I was very advanced, and this was at the most ghetto school you can imagine in the UK.

You are wrong.

Why does you sitting GCSE maths at fourteen make me wrong? It's an entire non sequitur.