To think billionaires shouldn’t exist?

[ThisIcyWriter]

No one earns a billion through hard work alone - it’s exploitation. AIBU to think billionaires shouldn’t exist in a fair society?

In a perfect world, we would all have the same amount of money, (and plenty of it!) all have a nice house, all have a well paid job that we enjoy (or be stay at home mum if we want,) all have plenty of surplus money, and lots of nice holidays, and have wonderful neighbours, an amazing spouse, and a supportive extended family.

Life's unfair though @ThisIcyWriter And it's not a perfect world. By your thinking, can we not all be 5 ft 9 and a size 10, with gorgeous long blonde wavy hair, legs up to our armpits, and flawless skin.

I somewhat agree but I don't necessarily object to there being billionaires. What I object to is there being people living in poverty while there are billionaires at the other end. The gap needs to be bridged. No one should be struggling (at all) while others are living in excess. UBI for the win!

Off with their heads

To the guillotine

The trouble is when the wealth is hoarded.

If someone earns a billion pounds (I wish it was me) that is "fine" as long as they also spend it. Buy a large house (that has been built by builders, electricians, plumbers, designers etc). Buy a yacht - provides employment for the boat builders. Employ cleaners, gardeners, butlers, a pilot for their yacht etc. Donate large amounts, spend it on champagne and oysters. Whatever works - as long as the money is coming back into the economy then great.

If it's sitting in a bank account doing nothing (images of Smaug flashing through my mind) except growing, then that is the issue. It is in effect taking the money out of circulation, ensuring the poorer stay poorer.

Geneticsbunny · Today 09:11
Viva la revolution

Revolutionary mumsnet!
@Geneticsbunny what form would this Revolution take?
Guillotines as a pp suggested? Or just seizing of assets?
Just a warning, revolutions can become nasty and revolutionaries can end up being turned upon by counter-revolutionaries. See French & Russian revolutions.

Communism always leads to gulags. It's nice for people to know that hard work and investment will bring them a nicer life. But that's completely different to worrying about the dominance of the super wealthy - billionaires etc. Once you reach that level of wealth it's impossible to spend it. Even the interest a billion pounds would earn is almost impossible to spend. So they have to invest in assets. Assets = things like land/houses/companies and are effectively a limited resource (unlike businesses producing new things) . So more "ordinary" people are priced out and unable to buy assets for themselves. So the gap gets larger and breeds instability, discontent. This is happening now and it's not because younger generations buy too many avocado's or because of immigrants etc. Worse than that, outrageous wealth also wants to buy politicians, entire countries. We are seeing this play out now. Rich people will always be able to buy the ear of some politicians to a certain extent. Twas ever thus. But what is happening now is different, effectively you reach the stage where people become so powerful through money the checks and balances, the tools ordinary people have to compete with billionaires for politicians attention are broken. And then everyone with money HAS to participate in this game of buying assets, underpaying workers, buying politics or be outcompeted/overwhelmed by the other super rich. They aren't free either.

The end stages of extreme capitalism and communism look the same - both are about "maximising efficiency" at the expense of the human (human dignity, human life, human freedom) . There is not much difference between how Jeff Bezos runs his warehouses and how Stalin ran his production lines. And the "middle class" suffer too. Because it becomes impossible to e.g. Use your own money to open a little shop that grows and becomes a chain of shops. Because larger businesses, with monopolies, will crush you. That's also why you don't see many new tech startups growing in people's garages now. And tech guys like Peter Thiel are completely honest about the end goal of a tech company being to form a monopoly.

So yeah - worrying about the growth of billionaires does not mean that you want communism to replace it.

First post nails it 😂

Another “post and run” thread designed to get people frothing 🙄

Why is it due to exploitation?

There is a difference between that world though and a world where everyone has access to health care, where you work hard all day but without wearing a tag that monitors how often you go to the toilet like a criminal, where mums don't have to go back to work before their episiostomy stichts have healed,where a hard working couple can buy a small home together and not have to worry about living with their children in a car if one of them loses their job. Basic human dignity should be achievable.

I lived in America and every time someone criticised part of the system there (eg health care) you would have someone else saying "but communism doesn't work". As if there was no other alternative. While I also have links to the Netherlands which, while not perfect, has a much better welfare state. And Dutch people still worry that the national debt is too high compared to the Netherlands GDP (it's just under 60% which if you have lived in America is adorable.) But America's problems aren't caused by immigrants or "the woke" (even if immigration is too high). It goes back to the lie that was "trickle down" economics. Super wealthy people don't trickle down their wealth. They suck up more. And some people in the UK (reform) seem determined we keep marching down the same path as the US.

I tend to agree with the OP but I think there's one thing we're all missing here. As I understand it, a billionaire isn't someone who has a billion in their bank account. If you start a business and grow it you may well own several factories each of which is worth more than a million.

You may well pay yourself a modest amount. You might not live in a mansion and have a fleet of cars. Elon Musk is a billionaire because he owns a lot of big rockets and high-tech car factories. I have no idea if he has a luxurious lifestyle.

If you want to redistribute his wealth, how are you going to do that? Sell off a few of his rockets and car factories and use the money on the poor? Who would you sell them to? What effect would that have on the viability of his companies? Would it mean that other countries like China would be able to pull ahead of America?

I never really worry/think about whether someone's richer than me, has more inheritance coming their way or has a pension that's worth twice as much as mine...

It's none of my business...
There will be those that have earned it.
Good luck to them.

However if I was fortunate enough to become a billionaire there's no way I'd need or keep it all to myself.

But doesn't that just show a lack of undertstanding about what a non dom is?

Yep the press ran with it and people didn't look further at the status

I think some feel she took from them. What exactly maybe they can say

I read an article this morning about Tesla not paying much tax in the US. Part of the article mentioned that Tesla made a loss for most of the past 20 years. So Musk has been carrying that risk of complete failure for all that time.

I don't know but I think Tesla probably pays a reasonable wage. What I object to are people like the Walmart heirs. As soon as someone starts working as a shop assistant at Walmart they are handed a pack showing how they claim benefits as they aren't paid enough to live. Local and federal authorities are supporting Walmart by paying for their employees to actually be able to not starve to death. Meanwhile the Walton family are billionaires. I object to organized corporate welfare on that massive scale.

Nothing wrong with them.

If I had the balls and ability to become one, I'd have done it and made no apology for having a fuck tonne of money and enjoying it.

I do wonder sometimes that if breathing wasn't an autonomic response, how many people would have the intelligence to do it.

Many thought the same after Brexit and Trump.

In principle I agree OP
I think we need global tax agreements so billionaires and multinationals can't influence taxation levels by pitching countries against each other.
Also, profits need to be better shared out with workers who actually do the work and make the money. I suppose more unionisation could do this and legislation against fake self employment. Nobody is self employed working in a warehouse for Amazon.

Quite a difference between that scenario and billionaires.

Op you'll be pleased to know the billionaires and millionaires are leaving the UK. Other countries are more than happy to receive them and the benefits they bring.

I agree, no one needs that level of wealth. Should be an enormous rate of tax above a certain amount to essentially rid the world of billionaires. Especially since having that level of money is now giving people a huge amount of influence politically without election.

They’re leaving the Netherlands and - strangely - Saudi Arabia too.

What I don't understand is why they would bother moving to save money. You're a billionaire, how is this not enough money for you? Why would you care about tax, you won't even notice that money gone and it'll make zero difference to your lifestyle.
I guess it's a mindset that I will just never be able to get my head around.

Not great for our funds. I guess some will be happy as per posts on here