Why doesn’t everyone sleep train?

[Goldstar88]

I know there’s always debate about the pros and cons of sleep training. I personally haven’t with my 13 month old (and they do still wake 1-2 times but sometimes sleep through). I often have friends telling me I just need to sleep train. My DC self settles, even in the night after a feed, so I have never thought it that necessary, albeit I’d like to have a reliable solid night’s sleep (wouldn’t everyone!).

I’m genuinely intrigued as to why if sleep training is the silver bullet it is touted to be by sleep experts and lots of parents, why doesn’t everyone do it? Surely it would be taught by every midwife etc and no one would ever face sleep deprivation after the newborn stage?

Am I, and lots of other parents, just being naive and missing out, making it hard for ourselves?

To be clear, I really don’t like the idea of leaving my DC to cry and I’m holding on to the hope they will eventually just sleep through as they get older…!

I think a common issue when this topic is discussed is conflating sleep training with cry it out. Not all sleep training involves crying it out (and not all babies being left to cry it out are actually being sleep trained!)

Sleep training is not automatically synonymous with Cry it out… there are sleep training methods that allow for settling distressed babies/toddlers and are more about helping parents and infants follow a routine of sleeps, feeds and naps that fosters a healthy relationship with sleep (for both the child and the parents!)

We did it for both of our kids and it was very successful and has been so important for our mental and physical health and well being. They were never left to cry it out.

But of course it’s not for everyone and I never “recommend “ it to another parent unless they directly ask or express a wish to find a solution to their sleep (or lack of sleep) problem!

I just read that Ferber (who has recently admitted that cosleeping might be beneficial) recommends up to 30 minutes of crying. 30 minutes!!! Imagine crying for 30 minutes for your partner to come and cuddle you and they’re just sat outside the door telling you to go to sleep.

2 minutes is one thing, 30 minutes is never level.

I followed all of Gina Fords techniques with my first single and twins after.
eg…Sleeping bags, blackout blinds, never let them fall asleep on you and then transfer etc etc. All great advice.

None of mine cried themselves to sleep, none of mine got upset, all of them woke and waited for us without crying. The techniques are amazing.I never thought of it as sleep training just allowing your child to sleep to their natural rhythm in an appropriate environment.

I didn’t do it with my older ones because I didn’t need to, they were all sleeping through reliably either before the next one was born or (where there’s a larger gap) before their second birthday.

This one though, she’s built differently. At well over 2.5 she’s still waking more than the average newborn. And of course this time around we live in a house with paper thin walls and a teenager with a sleep disorder next door so even the gentlest of sleep training is off the cards because all the cuddles and reassurance in the world isn’t going to stop her screaming the place down. In hindsight, while I still wouldn’t leave a child
to cry, I do wish I’d been firmer about teaching her to self settle when she was younger.

Still, they all sleep through eventually right?

Babies do not have any ability to 'self soothe
They do if they're thumb suckers!

Babies are different. That only seems to apply though when we're talking about the babies who naturally want to co-sleep and breastfeed all night but doesn't consider the fact that not all babies want to co-sleep and prefer to be left alone to go to sleep.

It was amazing when I discovered that DS just wanted to be left the fuck alone to go to sleep. He didn't want to be rocked, he didn't want to co-sleep, he wanted to be put down, whinge for a few minutes and then go to sleep.

Of course, if it applied both ways then those that don't sleep train wouldn't be able to feel superior in their judgement as it would mean those who do sleep train simply do what is best for their babies too. Which isn't going to involve leaving a baby to cry for hours as some would like to believe.

I don't think it is good for a child's psychological development to be forced to learn that if they cry, no one will come. I want my child to feel secure and loved.

Letting my children fall asleep on me and holding them in my arms as they dream has been one of the most beautiful, serene moments of my life. I cannot imagine missing out on this because some woman in a book told me to.

I thought (and still think) it's completely against what mothers and babies are meant to do.

Yes, it doesn't fit well with modern times, but neither do most aspects of life from the millions of years humans existed prior to 1900.

Because mine would throw up if left to cry and it would be totally unsafe. Plus I accept that I am her world and sometimes she needs me even when it's 2am and a pain in the arse.

For those who are against it and think it’s barbaric etc, if you have two children have you not ever had a situation where you can’t be with both together and one has been left to cry?

I didn’t sleep train as such but I had a newborn and two year old as a single parent and there were a lot of occasions where the baby cried for a while while I was doing something with the two year old. I tried loads of different bedtime routines and in some periods managed bedtime for both together but sometimes that just didn’t work and I’d have to put the baby down. And sometimes the right thing was to be with the (extremely jealous clingy) 2 yr old even though the baby was crying.

And my youngest was a bad sleeper and didn’t sleep through until 18m. I was extremely sleep deprived having literally been with him 24/7 with no help for the first year. I was taking a (in hindsight) really stupid risk by driving around etc in that state. I could easily have had an accident which killed both children. It would probably have been much safer for me to sleep train.

So I think it’s really unhelpful to tell people that it’s barbaric / putting the parent first to sleep train or for a baby to ever cry alone. It guilts people trips parents who may be really struggling.

I didn’t sleep train either of mine, was totally against it.

Well 11 years after having my first I massively regret it as they both still struggle to get to sleep without a huge faff.

If I could go back in time I would read up properly on sleep training and implement it as soon as they were both out of the feeding on demand newborn stage, I feel like it would have been kinder on them and on us as parents and avoided the years and years of sitting on bedroom floors waiting for them to drift off.

It depends what you mean by sleep training.

If you mean waiting until your baby is 8 or 9 months old or older to sort out their sleep and then letting them cry it out then no, that’s horrible for everyone involved.

If you mean getting your baby into a consistent routine from the first weeks and sticking to it so that they never have to ‘cry it out’ because they establish a positive sleep cycle from the word go then yes, I absolutely recommended sleep training. In fact, it is BONKERS to me why everyone doesn’t do this.

I used the same routine for my three DC from about 2 weeks and I found it gave them the consistency they needed to sleep through as soon as they were physically able to without any distress. They slept through at 11, 9 and 12 weeks respectively.

We avoided ALL the angst of an older baby waking multiple times a night and saved ourselves a lot of sleep deprivation, just by being consistent with the routine.

To me it’s a no-brainer.

Oh, and it pisses me off when people say “you were just lucky”. Erm, no we weren’t. We worked hard to make it happen.

@MumCanIHaveASnackPlease it might be serene and lovely, but if they're asleep in your arms, how do you sleep?

I'm in the place of I would have been fine with cosleeping, but I genuinely don't understand how it works. If I shifted position she would wake up 🤷‍♀️

And in answer to your question, I think a lot of people don’t set a routine because they are told to ‘feed on demand’.

The problem with this advice is that many newborns don’t actually demand to be fed that much during the day, which is why you then end up feeding so much during the night.

If you’re ok with this then great, but personally I would rather feed at regular intervals during the day so they didn’t need feeding so much at night and I could get a good night’s sleep. So I fed more than they demanded during the day to avoid too much nighttime waking.

No one wants a nocturnal baby.

We had a consistent, regular, routine from day one.DD just didn’t give a shit about it.

pp also had twins which is a different beast. Nap time, especially with twins = getting shit done.

I can't imagine how co-sleeping with twins, especially during the early days if they have a small birth weight would be safe either.

ignoring your child desperately wanting your help / attention / comfort in the absolute only way they can communicate… top parenting. Sleep consultants are the latest MLM I’m sure of it.

Newborns don’t have an internal clock, that’s why you feed on demand and why it’s healthier to do so, including feeding at night. Once their internal clock regulates, that’s when feeding at certain times and intervals makes sense. If breastfeeding you’ll naturally produce melatonin which will help the process. Feeding in this cycle with formula is more likely to increase overfeeding chances.

We just stuck to a consistent day time routine. My 6m old sleeps fine and only had disruptions during the 4 month regression which was brutal. I could never do cry it out, I’d be so exhausted. I also strongly believe it is cruel.

Currently holding my youngest right now who woke up 10 mins ago, gave him a feed and then I’ll pop him in his cot and I’ll go to bed? Just because he’s fallen asleep on me doesn’t mean he doesn’t go in the cot.

It's natural for babies to want to feed more at night.

At night our prolactin hormone is at its highest so our milk production is also at its highest, therefore babies will get a higher quantity of milk at night when feeding.

It is instinctive for babies to want to, because the world is quieter and feeding is not just a source of nourishment but stimulation.

Formula fed babies may sleep differently as Formula has larger molecules in it and it takes longer to digest.

@MumCanIHaveASnackPlease im so jealous. I would love to do that, but at bedtime if you attempt a transfer it's game over for us!

She has to fall asleep in her cot, or she wakes at the slightest movement.

I agree with you on so many levels. But just to raise the point you can do this get them brilliant sleeping and then it will fucks up. Some of us did this. I had three all sleeping through solidly at nine weeks six weeks and five weeks (by that I mean 7 -7 with a dream feed)
Two with them however decided at about four months that they would start waking up during the night. At its worst it was every fucking 20 minutes for about two months. I nearly went insane. I don't say that lightly.
Both times I ended up just doing CIO. Any attempt at rocking or patting or gentle withdrawal just resulted in an absolutely devastated child. We tried everything and our marriage and mental health was on the brink. I was an absolutely awful mother during the day, snappy, unfocused and basically exhausted as I'd had no sleep. They was wake up I'd get them to sleep ten minutes later I'll go to sleep intimate after that they always wake up again it was like torture.

Then one night need of us could get up we physically couldn't get up and the baby cried and cried for 20 minutes. Miraculously he then shut up I went to sleep until the morning. The next night we decided not to go to him and he cried for about 12 minutes and then went to sleep and the final night it was five minutes. From then on he started to sleep through again. We got our lives back, occasionally when he was ill he would slip back into shit sleep and we did. Cio again I managed to be a decent parent during the day, our marriage survived and now they are all lovely teenagers who we have brilliant relationships with. The 2 terrible sleepers are autistic, an I dread to think what a terrible mother I would have been to them if I'd had even less sleep as they were high demand and required a lot of attention.
I see some parents who are so exhausted after two or three years of co-sleeping that they are so awful to their children during the day and yet have this inability to realize it's because they aren't sleeping.the kids are knackered, the parents and that kid their relationship is shit. There's lots of shouting and crying in the day because everyone's so tired and yet it could be resolved for a few of nights of tears. I sometimes think the approach we took caused much less distress done exhausted parents making poor decisions during the day.

I think this is probably just anecdotal/a coincidence? Me and my siblings were all sleep trained, we all sleep quite differently as adults. I think as you get older other life experiences probably have an impact too. My brother was an excellent sleeper until he got a high powered job for example 😂

Edited to add we slept differently as children and teenagers too. I think temperament and sleep needs probably have a big impact!