To wonder what would happen if LL were ever released?

[Pleasehelp12345]

I'm not intending to state whether I think she is innocent or guilty but I am just curious as to how her life would look if she were released.
Even if her conviction was overturned, it's highly unlikely she'd be able to go back to a regular life, or would she? Would she walk away with no convictions?

Yeah it’s not the same but she’s at massive risk if they find she is innocent people won’t believe it and they have a duty of care to ensure she remains safe and I can’t see any other way of doing that than through a protected identity

maxine carr didn’t get the protection because of what she did - she got it because the public would have lynched her - I can see this going the same way

There would have to be a massive overall and explanations for other key evidence, including her falsification of records.

A disregard of other people’s evidence, including that of parents, accounts which conflict with hers and her falsifications are proven in phone records.

For anyone advocating her release, would you want her back on a neonatal unit looking after your DC? If deemed innocent, despite 2 juries convicting otherwise, she could be reinstated.

That’s my barometer when I read half baked ‘expert’ far removed stories.

This thread shows exactly why she was able to get away with her crimes for so long, people just refuse to believe it. The end of operation Hummingbird can't come soon enough to put a stop to all this nonsense.

Why the scare quotes around expert?

@Palsywalsy because some people would never accept her innocence.

AFAIK there was no real evidence of her falsifying records. They just accuse her of it when it places her elsewhere.

Even the phone record evidence from Baby E's mother has a big problem. It wasn't just Letby who was an hour out, but also the midwife regarding the later call. Did they both lie and falsify records? In fact all the medical staff statements have the crash not happening until after the relevant phone call. Mobile networks will measure time to UTC and not BST. On normal phone bills this is corrected to reflect local time, if the record given to the mother was a system record it will not have been. Either everyone was in on the conspiracy, or the phone records were not understood.

@Pleasehelp12345 look at Sally Clarke, who was convicted of murdering her babies. Her conviction was overturned as the evidence was "fabricated." She was dead soon afterward.
She'll have to wait a long time for the state to admit they were wrong.

If she was found innocent and released I hope she would live the life she should have lived

@Alltheprettyseahorses it's only a fair trial if the evidence is sound. In this case it would seem the evidence is not sound. Juries can only convict or find not guilty on the evidence they are presented with. If the evidence is flawed in anyway, then the conviction is unsafe.

That was pre-social media, though.

No think the media have used instances to paint her badly an example the secret code she used on certain days when babies died LD means long day E means early shift L means late shift no secret code what every nurse & midwife writes in their diary for their shift pattern. That narrative was put out by the media, I had a friend send me a link about how she is a psychopath as her house was behind a graveyard, so is mine half my street are psychopaths then. If you are innocent how do you prove it against 5 doctors?

@Catpuss66 well if you were suspected of being a murderer it'd be a very unfortunate coincidence wouldn't it? Especially if you picked the house because of it's location which with someone like LL wouldn't be that far-fetched. Again it all adds up to a bigger picture. Stalking families on facebook Christmas day, revelling in their grief. Taking handover sheets home by the hundreds. How lucky for the doctors they pinned all the deaths on the only nurse on the unit acting in a wholly inappropriate way outside of the NICU as well (which they couldn't possibly have known) do you think her colleagues were doing half that stuff?

She's probably a narcissist rather than a psychopath though. It fits in with the note, she has a void she can't fill, a huge ego yet her true self feels like she isn't good enough so she has to take from everyone else to make herself feel better.

Wow if that’s true then that’s a huge misrepresentation!

Omg now I am back to thinking maybe she is innocent.

They have really fucked this whole thing up. The poor families 😢

@TheCountessofFitzdotterel i think think we actually know the percentage or weight of science and scientists on each side. Hopefully it’ll become clear.

Not sure you have a very realistic view of women. Lots of women ‘stalk’ people on FB I am probably the only one who doesn’t but then I don’t post pictures of my tea sure lots of men don’t do that either. If she was working Christmas Day & it was quiet she may have thought hope they are having a nice Christmas & just had a look at what they were doing ( that is just a theory not fact I know the difference) I bought my house behind a graveyard as I grew up in house behind a graveyard & also knew they would never build there. Selfish I know. Not sure what she was doing outside of work that was so inappropriate you must know a lot more than me.

Private Eye has been trying to find scientists to back up Dewi Evans and has had no luck so far.

And the very system they locked down for to protect.

@Catpuss66 I am a woman so I think I have a pretty good insight, I just don't happen to think women can do no wrong. She's not just any woman either she was a professional in a job that requires confidentiality, if she can't stop nosing around her patients and other inappropriate things she should've been doing something else where it wouldn't matter as much. I don't think NHS guidelines state "well you're women so realistically we can't ask you not to stalk your patients on your days off or hoard handover sheets" 🙄These are all big no-no's and IIRC she was off that Christmas day. It's an alarming level of overinvolvement. How could they be having a nice Christmas they'd lost their child that year who should've been there!

You obviously know more than me. Wonder if the same argument is applicable to patients I have recently found messages from patients I looked after what about my data protection I didn’t answer.

@Catpuss66 well no of course that isn't the same thing, they're not in a position of power over you! Surely you understand that.

Because even now, after 14 eminent neonatal medics have given their evidence that there were NO MURDERS, there are still people who believe she was guilty.

It's an opinion.other experts will have a different opinion. Many other factors pointed to her guilt, or else she would have been found not guilty.

Are you seriously basing your opinions on things you've read on a Reddit forum? Come on, that's ridiculous, surely you know that?

But the prosecution expert witness Dewi Evans has changed his view that LL injected air into the baby's stomachs, because he's heard from Dr Shoo Lee that the 30 year old paper on air embolisms is not to be relied on.

And the statistical evidence has been ripped to shreds - there were other baby deaths when LL wasn't there, but not surprisingly she wasn't accused of hurting them.

Baby deaths reduced when LL was taken off ward duty - at the same time the hospital was downgraded so it didn't have such sick babies.

The Royal College criticised the neonatal unit because consultants did ward rounds only twice a week instead of twice a day. In a situation where very sick babies can collapse without warning and need a close eye kept on them how is that safe? Also older experienced nurses had been made redundant to save money.

There were problems with the plumbing and sewage was coming up the sinks. One tap on the neonatal ward was replaced because it was breeding a very dangerous bacteria, but requests from staff to have the other dangerous tap replaced were met with 'it's not in the budget'.

I do wonder what the evidence is that LL is guilty. She was never caught doing anything. She never researched ways to kill babies on her phone or computer, she didn't use just one way, as is usual with serial killers.

I'm afraid that having once believed that LL was guilty, albeit with reservations, because it was all circumstancial, when I heard the statisticians question the 'Lucy did it' statistics I started to have doubts. When I have heard and read about the very doubtful character Dewi Evans, who has NOT ONE peer reviewed paper to his name and a rather questionable part in a death in his own hospital that should not have happened, as well as the 14 unpaid medical experts I am more than ever convinced she is innocent. But don't believe me, do your own research, starting with the press conference and then listen to podcasts from investigative journalist John Sweeney 'Was there ever a Crime?'