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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To wonder what would happen if LL were ever released?

355 replies

Pleasehelp12345 · 06/02/2025 19:27

I'm not intending to state whether I think she is innocent or guilty but I am just curious as to how her life would look if she were released.
Even if her conviction was overturned, it's highly unlikely she'd be able to go back to a regular life, or would she? Would she walk away with no convictions?

OP posts:
Toddlerhelpplease123 · 07/02/2025 15:27

Catpuss66 · 07/02/2025 15:07

To answer some of your questions doubt very much that a healthy baby was in the highest level of intensive care was just waiting to go home, it costs money to give that level of intensive care, if that bed was full then they would had to pay out to another hospitals to care for another high risk baby. It doesn’t make sense.
fishing paper towels out of the bin. As any nurse will know paper towels can actually be filed in hospital notes, she may have wanted to keep it if she needed to write a statement . This is not unusual behaviour. Lots of us before Covid had hand written work sheets in our pockets & we went home in uniform the work sheet would be at home, again not unusual.
These incidents might be unusual in today’s climate but then it wasn’t. Hope that has given you a different view of those incidents.

According to what I read; again second hand info from a forum as do not have the transcripts.

She didn’t write the notes on the paper towel. Then it was given to a doctor who wrote up the notes. Then another nurse testified she was given the paper and remembered disposing of it in the bin.

LL apparently never should have had the paper towel. And it was supposed to be in the bin. But was in her bedroom.

If that is true - would that be odd to you?

Bodybutterblusher · 07/02/2025 15:28

I would like to think that she would be able to rebuild her life with a new identity. It is surprisingly possible, especially with the media coverage that would accompany an overturned conviction. My concern is that Lucy herself, if innocent, would take her own life as she seems like an emotionally rigid person who would be unlikely to make sense of a situation that would confuse the best of us. Finding a meaningful life after this experience would be challenging.

BoldBlueZebra · 07/02/2025 15:31

I would imagine similar arrangements to those that protect Maxine Carr would be implemented

SnakesAndArrows · 07/02/2025 15:32

JustAskingThisQ · 07/02/2025 15:16

Wasn't the full term baby the one who had several risk factors for infection? That's the one my relative said had really bad care from the beginning.

I understand from Dr Lee’s press conference that the full term baby had been born after prolonged premature rupture of membranes. The mother had not been given prophylactic antibiotics, and post-birth treatment was delayed. These are facts (unless treatment was given that was not documented).

Dr Lee’s team concluded that the baby died from systemic sepsis, pneumonia and disseminated intravascular coagulation. Not an air embolism, as was claimed at the trial.

Toddlerhelpplease123 · 07/02/2025 15:46

SnakesAndArrows · 07/02/2025 15:32

I understand from Dr Lee’s press conference that the full term baby had been born after prolonged premature rupture of membranes. The mother had not been given prophylactic antibiotics, and post-birth treatment was delayed. These are facts (unless treatment was given that was not documented).

Dr Lee’s team concluded that the baby died from systemic sepsis, pneumonia and disseminated intravascular coagulation. Not an air embolism, as was claimed at the trial.

Thanks, I hadn’t put two and two together that that was that baby.

They clearly weren’t healthy full term if that’s the case.

Viviennemary · 07/02/2025 15:47

BoldBlueZebra · 07/02/2025 15:31

I would imagine similar arrangements to those that protect Maxine Carr would be implemented

I can't see how its the same. Maxine Carr was found guilty of a very serious crime. If Lucy Letby is freed it will be because she is deemed not to be guilty of any crime. In this case would a new identity be given. I wonder if this has happened before.

Loveumagenta · 07/02/2025 15:49

If she’s out then she’s been exonerated and should have compensation to help rebuild her life

crankytoes · 07/02/2025 15:57

@FanofLeaves

LL might well be guilty- she has been found so by a jury after an incredibly long trial. The conviction being overturned (I doubt this would happen) will not be proof of innocence.
But if key evidence was withheld from the jury then the conviction would be unsound and a new trial could indeed prove her to be not guilty

CerealPosterHere · 07/02/2025 16:00

SnakesAndArrows · 07/02/2025 15:32

I understand from Dr Lee’s press conference that the full term baby had been born after prolonged premature rupture of membranes. The mother had not been given prophylactic antibiotics, and post-birth treatment was delayed. These are facts (unless treatment was given that was not documented).

Dr Lee’s team concluded that the baby died from systemic sepsis, pneumonia and disseminated intravascular coagulation. Not an air embolism, as was claimed at the trial.

Funnily enough sepsis can give mottled skin/rashes.

SnakesAndArrows · 07/02/2025 16:07

CerealPosterHere · 07/02/2025 16:00

Funnily enough sepsis can give mottled skin/rashes.

Well, quite.

SnakesAndArrows · 07/02/2025 16:12

Toddlerhelpplease123 · 07/02/2025 15:27

According to what I read; again second hand info from a forum as do not have the transcripts.

She didn’t write the notes on the paper towel. Then it was given to a doctor who wrote up the notes. Then another nurse testified she was given the paper and remembered disposing of it in the bin.

LL apparently never should have had the paper towel. And it was supposed to be in the bin. But was in her bedroom.

If that is true - would that be odd to you?

Odd, inappropriate, and possibly a disciplinary matter. But over-involvement in patients’ lives is not an actual crime, and it isn’t equivalent to murder.

JustAskingThisQ · 07/02/2025 16:21

SnakesAndArrows · 07/02/2025 15:32

I understand from Dr Lee’s press conference that the full term baby had been born after prolonged premature rupture of membranes. The mother had not been given prophylactic antibiotics, and post-birth treatment was delayed. These are facts (unless treatment was given that was not documented).

Dr Lee’s team concluded that the baby died from systemic sepsis, pneumonia and disseminated intravascular coagulation. Not an air embolism, as was claimed at the trial.

My relative was saying they kept taking this baby on and off of oxygen and they'd have never done that at her hospital in those specific circumstances.

DelilahRay · 07/02/2025 16:21

This reply has been withdrawn

Withdrawn at the request of the user.

Toddlerhelpplease123 · 07/02/2025 16:29

Well its without a doubt the biggest miscarriage of justice.

Because Im certain she will get be freed.

So it’s either that she’s innocent and has been accused of the most heinous of crimes.

Or she did do it, and yet shes gotten off through incredible fluke due to the incompetence and negligence of everyone around her.

Both massive miscarriages of justice. It is unthinkable really that this is happening.

marmaladeandpeanutbutter · 07/02/2025 16:30

We can't say that it's without doubt. Patently is is. There are views on both sides , increasingly, with respected scientists.

ByQuaintAzureWasp · 07/02/2025 16:43

nahthatsnotforme · 06/02/2025 19:29

I presume she'd need a complete change of identity and a massive compensation package

There will always be those who believe she was guilty no matter what and she would be hounded by them, or worse.

If she is innocent her life is ruined anyway

Sam Hallam and Andrew Malkinson, both wrongly convicted and jailed for years. No compensation to-date and they were clearly not guilty.

JustAskingThisQ · 07/02/2025 16:43

ByQuaintAzureWasp · 07/02/2025 16:43

Sam Hallam and Andrew Malkinson, both wrongly convicted and jailed for years. No compensation to-date and they were clearly not guilty.

Sam is who I know.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 07/02/2025 17:05

marmaladeandpeanutbutter · 07/02/2025 16:30

We can't say that it's without doubt. Patently is is. There are views on both sides , increasingly, with respected scientists.

There are views decreasingly on the prosecution side and increasingly on the side that there has been a miscarriage of justice. Respected scientists are not moving in both directions. Minor ones who have already thrown in their lot with the prosecution are clinging onto their initial view but the eminent scientists who are looking at the case are arguing for miscarriage of justice.

Totallymessed · 07/02/2025 17:15

Bodybutterblusher · 07/02/2025 15:28

I would like to think that she would be able to rebuild her life with a new identity. It is surprisingly possible, especially with the media coverage that would accompany an overturned conviction. My concern is that Lucy herself, if innocent, would take her own life as she seems like an emotionally rigid person who would be unlikely to make sense of a situation that would confuse the best of us. Finding a meaningful life after this experience would be challenging.

I don't think it's really fair to suggest that if LL took her life it would be due to being an emotionally rigid person. If she's innocent, what she will have gone through would utterly devastate anybody, no matter how psychologically robust.

Catpuss66 · 07/02/2025 17:50

Toddlerhelpplease123 · 07/02/2025 15:27

According to what I read; again second hand info from a forum as do not have the transcripts.

She didn’t write the notes on the paper towel. Then it was given to a doctor who wrote up the notes. Then another nurse testified she was given the paper and remembered disposing of it in the bin.

LL apparently never should have had the paper towel. And it was supposed to be in the bin. But was in her bedroom.

If that is true - would that be odd to you?

In an emergency people used to write on paper towels so a doctor is allowed to write up his notes but not LL? In case of statement writing. Why was she not allowed access to that information? Did the doctor ask her if she needed that information or did he just bin it as he was covered. it would have been timings drugs given who was present all useful information when writing a statement which she would of had to do in her own time. Not odd to me….probably not the practice now but then yes it was acceptable.

thiswilloutme · 07/02/2025 17:59

samarrange · 07/02/2025 12:07

Genuine question: Do you mean 'prosecution "expert"' rather than 'defence "expert"' there? I sort of assume you're referring to Dewi Evans, but maybe LL also had a not very competent expert on her side. 🙏

yes I do mean prosecution expert - apologies!

Toddlerhelpplease123 · 07/02/2025 18:06

Catpuss66 · 07/02/2025 17:50

In an emergency people used to write on paper towels so a doctor is allowed to write up his notes but not LL? In case of statement writing. Why was she not allowed access to that information? Did the doctor ask her if she needed that information or did he just bin it as he was covered. it would have been timings drugs given who was present all useful information when writing a statement which she would of had to do in her own time. Not odd to me….probably not the practice now but then yes it was acceptable.

Thanks for your view. Maybe it’s a coincidence then 🤷‍♀️

But there’s a lot of coincidences. And the thought of all this gives me the chills.

Alltheyearround · 07/02/2025 18:15

LizzieSiddal · 07/02/2025 07:48

I don’t think you’re premise is right. For me the system did partly work, they was evidence to suggest she may have been responsible however the main issue is her defence team didn’t challenge this evidence.
If I were on a jury and was given all that circumstantial evidence, along with an “expert” presenting it and the defence team produce nothing to challenge it, then I’d assume they couldn’t challenge it and most likely think she was guilty.

I don't understand why the defence team didn't challenge evidence. Even in cases where it appears fairly obvious someone has committed a murder, the job of the defence is to try and poke holes in the evidence and bring it into question.

gardenflowergirl · 07/02/2025 18:54

If she is found innocent, there'll be a large compensation claim going in for wrongful imprisonment.

Crakajak · 07/02/2025 19:07

The scary part is this could happen to anybody. Especially the way the UK is ATM. I suspect she was scapegoated due to her reserved mannerisms making her look odd.