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For not understanding why "populism" is seen as such a bad thing

377 replies

TemporaryPosition · 06/02/2025 10:26

Is the point of democracy not to have popular support?

OP posts:
Dolphinnoises · 06/02/2025 10:29

It’s not that - it’s doing so irresponsibly. Life is difficult and so is politics. So - whipping up anti-immigration sentiment even if an issue is not to do with immigration. Or claiming the NHS would be a world class, Rolls Royce of a service if only we left the EU.

It’s telling people what they want to hear as a way of winning votes, over promising what’s popular but also realistic (eg you can have your better public services but yes there will have to be a tax rise because things need paying for)

ExpressCheckout · 06/02/2025 10:33

Dolphinnoises · 06/02/2025 10:29

It’s not that - it’s doing so irresponsibly. Life is difficult and so is politics. So - whipping up anti-immigration sentiment even if an issue is not to do with immigration. Or claiming the NHS would be a world class, Rolls Royce of a service if only we left the EU.

It’s telling people what they want to hear as a way of winning votes, over promising what’s popular but also realistic (eg you can have your better public services but yes there will have to be a tax rise because things need paying for)

Edited

^ This. The Brexit vote was a good example of how populist politics exploits peoples' ignorance and prejudice and results in a poorer outcome for nearly everyone, except for the populists themselves.

FurryTeacup · 06/02/2025 10:36

ExpressCheckout · 06/02/2025 10:33

^ This. The Brexit vote was a good example of how populist politics exploits peoples' ignorance and prejudice and results in a poorer outcome for nearly everyone, except for the populists themselves.

Exactly to this and @Dolphinnoises.

grumpypedestrian · 06/02/2025 10:48

Populism is a very short term way of thinking. This ideology rarely has any plans to support their proposals and they won’t have any actual long term plans.

Clanke · 06/02/2025 10:49

Dolphinnoises · 06/02/2025 10:29

It’s not that - it’s doing so irresponsibly. Life is difficult and so is politics. So - whipping up anti-immigration sentiment even if an issue is not to do with immigration. Or claiming the NHS would be a world class, Rolls Royce of a service if only we left the EU.

It’s telling people what they want to hear as a way of winning votes, over promising what’s popular but also realistic (eg you can have your better public services but yes there will have to be a tax rise because things need paying for)

Edited

I agree with you but the obfuscation and over promising is completely ubiquitous in politics now.

username299 · 06/02/2025 10:49

There's nothing wrong with populism, the problem is some of the populists and their agenda.

Populists broadly claim to speak on behalf of the ordinary folk and stand in opposition to an elite.

Right wing populists like Farage and Trump, focus on socio cultural issues like immigration. As pointed out Brexit was a populist endeavour. The EU was the 'elite' that stood in the way of achieving sovereignty and less immigration.

Populists tend to be agitators who rally against the status quo. They talk about a crisis and claim to be the solution to that crisis. The right often scapegoat people and say they are the reason for that crisis.

unmemorableusername · 06/02/2025 10:50

I'd like an answer to this question too.

On the surface shouldn't democracy = popular policies being enacted?

It seems that populism is /has become a wolf whistle to smear people who hold views the liberal/political class/elite don't like.

Clanke · 06/02/2025 10:50

ExpressCheckout · 06/02/2025 10:33

^ This. The Brexit vote was a good example of how populist politics exploits peoples' ignorance and prejudice and results in a poorer outcome for nearly everyone, except for the populists themselves.

Ignorance and prejudice were not the only reasons people voted for Brexit.

Clanke · 06/02/2025 10:52

username299 · 06/02/2025 10:49

There's nothing wrong with populism, the problem is some of the populists and their agenda.

Populists broadly claim to speak on behalf of the ordinary folk and stand in opposition to an elite.

Right wing populists like Farage and Trump, focus on socio cultural issues like immigration. As pointed out Brexit was a populist endeavour. The EU was the 'elite' that stood in the way of achieving sovereignty and less immigration.

Populists tend to be agitators who rally against the status quo. They talk about a crisis and claim to be the solution to that crisis. The right often scapegoat people and say they are the reason for that crisis.

Could we say the BLM movement is a form of populism? Or social justice in general? Or is it a different phenomenon?

ExpressCheckout · 06/02/2025 10:54

Clanke · 06/02/2025 10:50

Ignorance and prejudice were not the only reasons people voted for Brexit.

That's true, but the politicians certainly played all the right notes, and believing what they said did involve a degree of ignorance or lack of curiosity at the very least.

MrTiddlesTheCat · 06/02/2025 10:56

Populism is tyranny of the majority and if it is allowed free rein then minorities and the vulnerable will pay the price.

ForAzureSeal · 06/02/2025 10:56

"Populism" as a concept isn't synonymous with "popular". And it isn't a coherent ideology. It is a way of framing things - used by right or left leaning people/movements (and by those with no affiliation at all) which emphases a divide between "us" ("the people") and "them" (some kind of elite).

It is, by definition divisive which is why it is usually used in a negative way.

Some "populist" policies/positions are also widely agreeable to people (i.e. popular) but also some are only agreeable to some people. It all comes down to who you include in your "us" and your "them".

TemporaryPosition · 06/02/2025 10:58

Dolphinnoises · 06/02/2025 10:29

It’s not that - it’s doing so irresponsibly. Life is difficult and so is politics. So - whipping up anti-immigration sentiment even if an issue is not to do with immigration. Or claiming the NHS would be a world class, Rolls Royce of a service if only we left the EU.

It’s telling people what they want to hear as a way of winning votes, over promising what’s popular but also realistic (eg you can have your better public services but yes there will have to be a tax rise because things need paying for)

Edited

So like when the Conservatives said they would reduce migration because they knew that's what people wanted to hear, but instead increased it?

OP posts:
Catza · 06/02/2025 10:58

unmemorableusername · 06/02/2025 10:50

I'd like an answer to this question too.

On the surface shouldn't democracy = popular policies being enacted?

It seems that populism is /has become a wolf whistle to smear people who hold views the liberal/political class/elite don't like.

You see, this is exactly the problem with populism. It's the inherent division between "us regular people" and "them the evil liberals and elite" as if liberals and elite are not part of the population. It's divisive in its core and fueled by discontent and finding the common enemy (EU, immigration, NHS, liberals, gay, unemployed, millionnaires etc.) instead of figuring out the way to work together for the benefit of society as a whole.

Clanke · 06/02/2025 10:58

MrTiddlesTheCat · 06/02/2025 10:56

Populism is tyranny of the majority and if it is allowed free rein then minorities and the vulnerable will pay the price.

Can you explain what you mean? What is the ‘tyranny of the majority’?

Ablondiebutagoody · 06/02/2025 10:58

Populism is what people less clever than you are tricked by

Octavia64 · 06/02/2025 10:59

There's a difference between populism and demagoguery.

Having popular policies is one thing.

Getting people to vote for stuff you know is going to be a shitshow is another

Whipping up the mob against immigrants and various other scapegoats is in another universe.

TemporaryPosition · 06/02/2025 10:59

ExpressCheckout · 06/02/2025 10:33

^ This. The Brexit vote was a good example of how populist politics exploits peoples' ignorance and prejudice and results in a poorer outcome for nearly everyone, except for the populists themselves.

The Brexit people voted for was to cut migration, this is not the Brexit that was delivered. Who thinks it is?

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username299 · 06/02/2025 10:59

Clanke · 06/02/2025 10:52

Could we say the BLM movement is a form of populism? Or social justice in general? Or is it a different phenomenon?

Of course there are left wing populists. Hugo Chavez was a populist leader. In the case of the left, the politics tend to revolve around socioeconomic issues. In Europe the Podemos in Spain and Syriza in Greece are populist parties.

TemporaryPosition · 06/02/2025 11:00

grumpypedestrian · 06/02/2025 10:48

Populism is a very short term way of thinking. This ideology rarely has any plans to support their proposals and they won’t have any actual long term plans.

Is populism an ideaology? I thought we were living in a time where there was no longer any ideaology in mainstream politics

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TheAzureSwan · 06/02/2025 11:01

Clanke · 06/02/2025 10:50

Ignorance and prejudice were not the only reasons people voted for Brexit.

Well that's true. Some people actually voted leave " for a joke".

TemporaryPosition · 06/02/2025 11:01

grumpypedestrian · 06/02/2025 10:48

Populism is a very short term way of thinking. This ideology rarely has any plans to support their proposals and they won’t have any actual long term plans.

How can you have a long term plan when you only have 4 or 5 years in office? Why would you do anything that might involve sacrifice now so that your political opponents can reap the credit?

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Octavia64 · 06/02/2025 11:01

The Brexit people voted for wasn't possible.

There's what people want - great state services at low cost with good relations with other states - and there's what's possible.

Populism is generally about winning elections by promising the impossible and Brexit is a prime example.

Mielikki · 06/02/2025 11:02

TemporaryPosition · 06/02/2025 11:00

Is populism an ideaology? I thought we were living in a time where there was no longer any ideaology in mainstream politics

No it's not. There are both rightwing and leftwing populists. It's a political tactic rather than an ideology.

TemporaryPosition · 06/02/2025 11:02

username299 · 06/02/2025 10:59

Of course there are left wing populists. Hugo Chavez was a populist leader. In the case of the left, the politics tend to revolve around socioeconomic issues. In Europe the Podemos in Spain and Syriza in Greece are populist parties.

Corbyn and Sanders have been described as left wing populists

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