For not understanding why "populism" is seen as such a bad thing

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Is the point of democracy not to have popular support?

@EasternStandard on the flip side Japan has had low immigration throughout its history and has a massive population crisis.

Our birth rate is absolutely tanking.

I'm in my early forties. If we don't have immigration, I won't get a state pension.

People who vote for Reform appear to think that everything wrong with the country is down to migration. That if they vote Reform Farage will come back from the States, wave a magic wand and everything will be sorted.

You admitted that you haven't bothered to read Reform's manifesto, yet you think Reform will stop immigration, stop asylum seekers and make everything better.

Have you listened to Reform MPs? I've read the manifesto and they haven't got a clue. It's completely uncosted and pie in the sky.

If you don't want human rights, labour laws or an NHS, then lobby for them to get in. If you think they're going to stop cheap foreign labour that their chums profit from I have a bridge...

Do you mean you would like the population to keep increasing indefinitely?

You'll need to keep growing the base over time as people age, is that what you're wanting

Populism is NOT the same thing as popular support 🤦‍♀️

It is political tactic which appeals to emotions over facts, oversimplifies issues and potential solutions and often is characterised by catchy but empty promises. It also deliberately uses divisive tactics (us vs them, ‘people’ vs ‘elites’).

And populism can be both right wing and left wing

You’re right. Gullibility was also a factor.

Omg you are a Reform voter who hasn’t even read their manifesto? Hahaha.

what do you think “dependant” is on a working visa? These dependants can be only a spouse and kids. Not parents. Spouse usually works (as they have right to work as a dependent); kids study. So you most likely have two people working and paying taxes - without right to vote or benefits. People on working visa do not get any benefits; they can use NHS of course but they pay a surcharge as a part of visa application.

You think it is a problem because - ?

Reform UK are currently leading the polls for who will you vote for in 2028/9.

Which party doesn't do this? Emotional hooks etc are always used in campaigns

So was Labour in 1980. Remember which party won in 1983? Four years is an eternity in politics.

Reform are filling the gap left by the Tories and are appealing to all the people who think that Labour should have fixed the NHS, stopped the migrants, given everyone a pay rise, slashed inflation and repaired all the potholes by about 4pm the day after the election.

Just because a policy is popular doesn't mean it's good or logical - most people want the NHS to have more funding but don't want to pay more taxes. Promising to do that (£350 million for the NHS lol) is popular but doesn't mean it will work.

It used to be that, but recently the discourse has changed so that anyone expressing a political view that is not left wing is branded as 'populist' as a way of putting down their different views.

In a democracy it is important we have different views. Most people want the same outcomes but they have different views on how to best achieve them. By being able to discuss and debate without being denigrated, we may come up with better options.

Populism is necessary in my view as a check to stop the elites getting too far from what the people actually want.

As has been pointed out already, this divisiveness is precisely why populism is so toxic. Brexit, Trump, right wing growing in Europe … all championed as being for the people. Their supporters claiming to be the people. In actual fact, in all these cases you see the society in question pretty much split down the middle. Brexiteers aren’t any more The People than I, someone who campaigned against it, am.

The view that you are in the in-group and others can be disregarded and othered is arrogant at best.

There is a difference between “emotional hooks” and things like having a bus with “let’s fund our NHS instead” or poster with migrants on a completely different border scaring people that this is what’s coming for Britain

Reform, Labour and Tories are why I am emigrating from the U.K. They have all made my country a unrecognisable shit hole of poverty and hate. None of the cunts deserve my taxes.

Holding my hands up, ideology wasn’t what I meant, it’s tactics.

As for other parties not planning long term either, I agree to an extent. This is why no political party will ever properly commit to climate change policies as it’s not in their interest.

This is nonsensical. There was no "Brexit that people voted for" vs "Brexit that people didn't vote for", there was only the question on the ballot paper: "Should the UK leave or remain in the EU?" An answer was given, and it was enacted.

Anyone dumb enough to think it would influence future policy in favour of whatever else they wanted has only themselves to blame.

Of course it is - and we had it when we were in the EU.

This tells me that you agreed with Corbyn, not that he wasn’t a populist. He certainly scapegoated groups of people (rich, white, Israelis, elites). You can say this doesn’t count because you think they are to blame, but that’s what any populist says.

Corbyn did say that white people were responsible for everything wrong with society. Where are you getting this cobblers from? Imakeshitup.com?

I think with brexit though, people often miss the fact that leavers were often aware that there might be downsides and wanted to leave anyway. For some people it was a point of principle.

The trouble with these debates is that anyone who disagrees is called dangerous/delusional/populist. You make it sound as though anyone who calls for less immigration is misguided, as though immigration is the only solution to the problems of care workers etc. It clearly isn’t.

What is?

Immigration is the easiest and cheapest solution for politicians and helps companies to profit by keeping wages low. That’s why it has been the preferred way forward. But the alternative is to attract British workers by improving pay, conditions, training and the status of these occupations. Policies to improve population health so we have a larger, healthier, more productive workforce. In the long term you can introduce policies to improve the birth rate.

How would that help farmers who can’t find workers to harvest their crops? There’s not much scope for training or improved status there.