How the term 'poverty' has changed

[Deeperthantheocean]

Just this really.

Poverty in my grandparents' age was 'be rich, a gangster, work hard or you die'.

This was so true, whole different era and real poverty from their times being born in the 1910s and the aftermath. Sadly my GF died so GM was alone bringing up 2 children and then adopting another as that's what what you did when members of the family were being abused. No benefits, only a council where you to practically beg for help and it was so looked down upon and gossip then was brutal.

So, a little 2 bedroom house, outhouse toilet, coal fire, no electricity. My GM worked all day and night... cleaning, making clothes and took in 2 male lodgers in the downstairs 'parlour', made breakfast and evening meals for them.

The 3 girls shared a double bed, GM got up at 4am every morning to bring in coal and make the fire before everyone else got up to go to work/ school. Then she went to work, physical cleaning work to the rich and snooty. The sad thing is she was she was so intelligent, gifted at creativity and music (she played the church organ with music she learnt from heart voluntarily) and sowed the most beautiful dresses. Also cakes.

Having rambled on a bit because this is deep to my heart hearing the stories, poverty was a case of just being able to survive, eat and have a roof. The DC were incredibly intelligent but had to to go to work aged 15 cand over all their wages for the family fund.

Poverty now has a different criteria, which of course it should as society has progressed. However aibu to compare the claim to poverty now to then? There is help, UC, recognition of SEN with DLa etc.

Sorry, but now those claiming poverty now wouldn't consider letting out a room, working all day and night, making clothes and baking just to survive.

Am I right? I wouldn't either as there has been so much to eradicate these hard times but I truly respect the hardship and feel so grateful for what we have now. Xx

I wasn't talking about homelessness itself, but rough sleeping and I made that clear so don't mis-quote me.

If your partner works for the emergency services then surely he must be on at least the national average?

Unless he's a new starter, police men, ambulance staff, firefighters etc get at least that. Not really poverty.

But some choose to sleep outside because they see hostel or B&B accommodation as more dangerous and they are not drug addicts. This is a fact.

*If your partner works for the emergency services then surely he must be on at least the national average?

Unless he's a new starter, police men, ambulance staff, firefighters etc get at least that. Not really poverty.*

It's like Keir Starmer trying to make out that he grew up in poverty despite both his parents having decent professions! They were just an average family.

It's called inequality.

I don't think that it's useful to use the term poverty in lot of circumstances as people don't see it as poverty.

The poster was saying that despite all the work she does, and despite her partner working in the emergency services, they still struggle to afford enough for nutritious meals for all, and sanitary products for her. And they can’t let out a room. I think her point is that even with all they do, it is hard. She said she wouldn’t quite describe herself as in poverty (though it clearly feels hard). But if that’s what two earning people working v hard can end up with, with good “at least the national average” wage, how much worse would it be for those with less? It’s not a big leap to see how the cost of housing traps people and can easily send many into poverty.

An average family decades ago had a lower standard of living than we do now though.
My own father was brought up with an outside toilet, didn't have a bath until he was 18, cardboard in their shoes, etc. His father had a public sector job, but had to sleep away for it sometimes so just being 'ordinary' in those days could mean poor compared to now.

Having said that, Starmer is not my dad's age so maybe I'm talking rubbish.

This is true to an extent, but people forget that standards can go backwards as well as forwards. The UK (or in fact the West as a whole) has peaked and is now in decline.

People often say things like, 'this shouldn't happen in 2025', as if they think that standards can only move forwards, but this simply isn't true. Countries rise and fall.

"This is true to an extent, but people forget that standards can go backwards as well as forwards. "

When you go a historial site and discover they had running water or a heating system thousands of years ago and yet in the 1960s people didn't have that.

Is the West as a whole really in decline though? The UK is bad because of inflation, rising cost of living and 15 years of Tory government leading to an increase in equality and a running down of public services.

"I remember visiting my grandparents and, even until the 1980s, there was still only an outside toilet and no central heating."

I mentioned the outside toilet in my own family, but neither set of grandparents ever had central heating. That wasn't necessarily a terrible thing as long as you had electricity and/or a coal fire. The coal fire heated the room people sat in and heaters elsewhere as needed and it was fine. I also wouldn't say it was a sign of poverty for any of my grandparents as I presume they could have installed it if they wanted to, but had never been used to it.

But they had their own home? Whether rented or owned?

Nowadays, many people can't afford a home...no social housing and can't afford private rent...but, they can afford a pair of shoes usually, this is not because they're well off but thanks to importing cheap goods from China or developing countries...a pair of cheap shoes can be bought for a fiver. Forgoing a pair of shoes won't make a huge dent to a family budget.

Poverty has changed partly due globalisation but still exists.

Yes, their own homes. And no ShoeZone I suppose.

"I'm a fan of novels/films/dramas set in the Victorian era, and I must admit I am shocked at the level of poverty that existed in those times. Like not having a proper coat to wear in bitterly cold weather,and having to make do with a knitted shawl. Or no decent shoes,the ones they had were falling apart. Having to survive on a few slices of bread and margarine a day. Living in freezing,cramped,tiny apartments,often with 3 or 4 people to one bed."

I think, thankfully, this is less common but all these things still happen. Charities often plug the gaps; there are charities which deliver beds to people too poor to buy them for their kids and clothes banks for coats. In a children's centre I was in the other day there was a box of free newborn hats for people to take if they couldn't afford them. Horrible reality.

Completely understand where you’re coming from but I suspect charities generally are better informed than governments about who needs what help and how to get it to them. Governments by their nature are woefully inefficient (which I think the public accept far too easily but I digress). Personally I’m not sure governments replacing the work of these charities would do a better job.

Bizarre number of posts about smart phones on this thread. Surely everyone realises with so many things being done online now they have become essential?

I live within a 20-25 minute walk from a library. Fine for me who is (relatively) young, fit and healthy and can walk. Some people will live further away than that from their nearest library so can’t walk and some people won’t be able to walk that far. So daily bus/train rides for people who don’t have a lot of moeny to begin with.

Now this inevitably means there will be high demand for stolen smartphones so I’m not sure how smart the move to all online is but again, I digress.

The national average is just that- an average. The pay scales depend on the area, he is a new starter within the first two years of his role-being paid circa 28k, after tax and pension it isn’t a big wage to support a family. He’s a police officer, the annual rises are very little at first unless you can manage to secure a promotion. He specialises in domestic violence cases, has saved lives and taken children away from unsafe homes. He was being paid more previously to work in a bar. Please do not try to minimise the problem- he and all the other emergency service workers deserve more and the sad reality is the funding just isn’t there.

You wouldn’t believe the amount that comes away on his payslip, I know I was surprised.

I’m not here for an argument, as I said there are people in worse financial situations than me. I’m not here to cry about being poor, but please don’t try to dismiss my current living situation, as I can assure you it is very real.

Pfft! An ‘ouse??? My ancestors lived in a cave! And they had to fight off the sabre toothed tigers to get to it! Your granny had it easy!

I run a charity (food bank) and disagree in part - lots of charities are inefficient and/or duplicate effort, and some also couch help in religious or moral terms. They are more efficient than government in the UK, which is "piss up in a brewery" territory, but not more efficient than some governments elsewhere. I think a lot of current charity sector work ought to be done at gov't level. Ideally by paying people enough to cover their basic costs, whether through benefits or wages, imo.

I’d like to circle back to this as having thought about it, your response gives off a touch of arrogance. I haven’t made out I am in poverty, but stated times are hard. Not quite a politician standing on a podium singing woe is me, but a woman having a valid input on a topic that so many are struggling with daily- I actually mentioned that I manage, however it is hard.

An ‘average family’ in the current climate are feeling the pinch just as I am, you’ll find that on many, many threads on this site.

Our household income apparently makes us "in poverty" but we don't feel it. We have enough for all the bills, just maybe not enough for an expensive car and a big holiday. But my mum was raised by a widow with 5 children, working 2 jobs, no benefits, having to use doorstep lenders for extra cash and I can't class myself as impoverished next to that.

OP you are showing your disdain for poor people. Not poor enough for you because they don't work up chimneys on in the coal mine?

But pps were dismissive of the concept which still widely goes on. I agree not possible with some accommodation and living conditions but for many who are only just managing it has and still is been a popular choice. Many cultures have multi generational living conditions which some of us would consider unacceptable. It does not mean they are living in poverty.

@TheWayTheLightFalls interestingly I saw very few charity shops when we lived in Copenhagen and few in Sweden when we used to go a lot too and never saw that many in Germany either- I did read that was because they felt certain functions should be state and not charity

There’s the quote from comedian Henning Wehn: We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes.

Someone mentioned upthread that we can often afford life's little luxury's these days but not the biggies- housing and utilities- get a grip on those and vast numbers of people's situations would improve- there are so many who receive rent allowance as part of UC but it is vastly below what they actually have to pay in rent- ( particularly in more expensive areas) so money that should be used for food/utilities and general living is taken up paying the rent - or people stuck in homes with mortgages they can't really afford post relationship breakdowns but darent move out because there is no way they would get a suitable mortgage again on their own or even pass the renting hoops and even if they sell don't have enough for 12 months up front etc - there really is vast amounts of instability out there, a great deal related to unaffordable housing, some related to debt. We need more social housing of good quality and all sizes and more shared ownership that's not just 1 and 2 bed flats and without ludicrous service charges- where the % owned is not taken in to account - my own view is why should you pay 100% of the service charge whilst only owning 30% Asan example of the flat ? And 100% of the maintenance is on you too -

You sound totally ignorant and heartless.