To emphasise that neurotypical kids have different needs to neurodiverse kids

[DevilledEgg]

I mean of course I'm not unreasonable. I'm just sick of seeing comments on here (everywhere actually, but I'm here the most) from perfect parents basically saying "well my neurotypical kids slept through the night by 1/share rooms fine/no not to hit their baby brother/eat what's offered etc etc so there's no reason your kids can't"

Telling parents of disabled children that they're shit parents because their DISABLED children don't behave like non disabled children is so fucking destructive.

And it happens all the fucking time

😭

Yanbu! If I click on a thread (where it's not clear from the title that it's about ND issues) and the OP says "my DD has ASD and..." I usually leave the thread immediately, because as the parent of NT kids there is nothing I can add to the discussion. But some people don't let their complete lack of knowledge stop them from spouting ignorant opinions under the guise of being "helpful" (whether the OP is about neurodiversity or any other topic).

But that said, I do agree with the PP above who pointed out that if people post on AIBU "for traffic", they surely know that a lot of the replies they get will be unhelpful at best and downright ableist at worst (particularly if their OP is describing behaviour from their autistic child that would be unacceptable/punishable if an NT child did it). That's not to say that those people are reasonable in replying in that way, btw!

With my daughter it became much easier for her because I was able to take my foot off the accelerator and take her out of secondary school. She has had alot of support. 12-17 were very very difficult - she wasnt diagnosed til she was 14 but really it was allowing her the space to feel safe and secure, to understanding herself and her fears, things around dealing with anxiety. short term ADs (which she is so very nearly off now) and recognising the beginning of those anxiety feelings so she can deal with it before it becomes debilitating.
She is 24 now. She is in her 2nd year of Uni. She still struggles but she has been allowed to be in charge of her own pathway. She had other medical issues which mean her chances of employment may not be high, but self employment in her chosen field is much more likely. She is talented and creative, and the charming/social/ find your way to get what you want has proven to be a fantastic asset in networking and selling her wares/services.

Its the support and removal of pressure, whilst keeping certain boundaries which formed a stable and safe foundation for her. If she had stayed in secondary school I am unsure she would be where she was - the overwhelm of the size/demands/social expectations/changing dynamics within social interactions was just far far far too much. Its why I dont really believe in integration in mainstream for all cases - with the best will in the world, its the busy environment and dealing with the NT kids, who dont seem to be able to cope with anyone who steps outside the norm without bullying / excluding / oh your just 'weird' ing which makes it really difficuly.

Similarly my non PDA ASDer had to also be removed from secondary as he was making himself smaller and smaller and starting to self harm. He didnt want to be withdrawn though, and was fortunate enough to get a bursary/scholarship to a very creative small independant, where he flew and now is a wonderful confident, whilst still quirky and def ASDish young man.

I have sympathy with both children, as I have PDA myself.

I think this is the point really. It’s a bit futile asking ‘the masses’ in AIBU (for example) for opinions on something they can know nothing about. Even if they are aware of ND, they don’t know your child(ren).
Better to get specific, professional opinions than asking people who can really only give you a guess, or worse, irritate the life out of you. That’s not fair on you or them.

I actually feel for my son the adult world will be easier to navigate than school and education is. The journey to adulthood might not be easy. With the right support I hope he will find a job he enjoys with the flexibility he needs. There can be more variety,choices and flexibility in adulthood than there is currently in mainstream education. If my son was to work for a small business or own his own small business (again wont apply to all) he could possibly wear his own clothes navigate his start stop time flexibility how he works/from where. Again it's very different for all of us working for something we want to or what we understand makes a positive difference to our life. Currently I have no good reason why he has to wear a uniform to school when the aim is simply to attend and learn. He understands wearing a football kit or a p.e kit but the uniform just makes no sense to him and why it cant be more flexible. Particularly when on school trips they dont wear uniform ao the safety argument doesnt even work.
I'm pretty sure he'd be more able to avoid uniforms in adult life than he can now.

I have concerns he might need more support socially when we are no longer here. I hope he will continue to be close to his siblings and form good relationships with others. For me personally I don't know that my concerns are vastly different to any parents.

I have a relative who has struggled since adulthood, clear signs of ND but never diagnosed since there wasn't really a focus on it then and his parents' view was that "you don't want to label kids". It makes me want to weep tbh. He never got the help and support he needed and, while he managed ok at school because it was a small one, there was a lot of structure and he had a couple of good friends, he has totally failed to launch and still lives at home in his parents' spare room and hardly ever goes out. He is a lovely young man and could have lived a much happier and fuller life and supported to fulfil his potential if he and those around him had understood him a bit better.

even the parents of children with the same conditions comparing children. I have an autistic child with very high needs. I’m also a single parent, my sons dad often comes to me with a comparison from a autistic child in his family saying ‘if _ can do it then our child can’ - completely disregarding the fact that autism is not just a one size fits all and affects each child as individuals.

You worded this so well. I relate completely. It's the pressure and environment of school that I would argue doesn't work for anyone really well but not at all for our children.

For my son things only escalated when school changed from what felt like a safe fun environment no pressure to suddenly unsafe all about results grades rules regulations don't do that don't be like that etc

As an adult if work suddenly becomes too stressful or management changes etc we leave that job. Thats a lot harder to do as a child when we have a one size (doesnt) fit all mainstream education model.

99% of MN children are ND in some way now.

both of my children really liked the majority of the teachers. They were adult of course, and they acted mainly like human beings. They had rules, and followed them.

The other kids however. Thats what made it so toxic for both of mine.

Not everyone is neurodiverse. The diverse part of the word means ‘as opposed to typical development’, this is just one step away from ‘everyone is on the autism scale, from very to not at all’.

To be honest I find parents who say my 2 children have autism pda, adhd and they can do whatever skill or attribute is being discussed, more annoying.

(I don't mind if they then explain how they developed that skill in a useful way and recognise that not all people with and will ever achieve it)

If you have a genuine interest, the PDA website has some useful case studies of adults with PDA and how they are.

Some don't have employment as they can't. It's a very difficult future But the condition is much more widely understood now, so I am hopeful that better strategies and techniques might be taught younger, so the future is less bleak.

It's also worth noting that school really is different to work. In pda there is a real need for control to reduce anxiety. Some schools really increase anxiety so the pda shows up very strongly. Some work places offer a lot more control over what you wear and how your day is and are less anxiety inducing so the person is less anxious. Imagine being somewhere where it's whole purpose is to tell you stuff you don't know yet, but uncertainty makes you want to control things, where all the other people are unpredictable.

I'd imagine that pretty often it's not at all down to lazy parenting, it's down to not knowing where to start when you're parenting a child with all sorts of issues that is really struggling to cope with the world and who processes everything in a completely different way.

People say there's no manual on how to raise a child - well there's certainly no manual on how to raise an ND child. Who's teaching you how to differentiate between an autistic meltdown and a tantrum? who's teaching you how to cope with a child whose anxiety goes through the roof when they don't feel in control? who's teaching you how to get a child to eat when they refuse everything apart from strawberry flavoured starburst? who's teaching you how to manage a child that is overwhelmed by noise, bright light, people, their sister?

People are generally just doing the best they can in often very difficult circumstances. And yes these kids may behave much worse for their mum or their parents and that is because they are their safe space where they can let out all their frustrations and anger from not coping with the world.

Completely agree with you OP.

But also want to flag the difference between neurodiverse and neurodivergent.

Neurodiversity is the natural variety of human brains, while neurodivergence is a person whose brain processes information differently. Our children are neurodivergent.

It would be nice if people realised that ND kids have different needs to each other, in the same way that NT kids do. Plus there's no wall between the two camps, it's a spectrum.

Sick of people talking as.if it's monolithic

But you literally just said you know that ASD and ADHD presents differently, so just because your son has managed to take on board those lessons doesn't mean all kids with "the same" diagnosis can. You've literally just done the exact thing the op is talking about.

RhaenysRocks I'm not an expert in this obviously, I'm just going by my own experience and what I've observed in others. I know a lot of parents of ND children, and the ones who seem to struggle the most with behaviour all have similar parenting styles, v gentle/permissive parenting etc.

Some children are definitely more challenging in general. All I'm saying is, as with parenting NT children, I do think parenting of ND children also plays a role. I don't mean this to blame parents, I feel incredibly sorry for such parents and know it must be extremely hard.

I'm autistic, I'm not PDA but the experience may be relevant. Demands are much lower in adulthood, the main struggle can be being told to do something that isn't necessary or doesn't seem necessary and dealing with power imbalance. Many ND people, PDA or not, do not like people who act in an authoritative way. So schools and parents with there "do as I say not as I do" "do it because I said so" doesn't go down well.
In employment there are generally reasons for everything you do, if you are asked to do a task which is meaningful and has benefit then it doesn't feel like a demand. As an adult you know you go in to work when expected to because you will get paid. You eat your meals when you want to within reason, you come and go as you please outside of work and choose how to spend your leisure time, when to go to bed etc. As a child with parents who don't understand the importance of autonomy, children often have all the above managed for them without any conversation about the reasons for it. This can lead to huge frustration which manifests as challenging behaviours and demand avoidance.
Some ND people don't manage with work and adult life. The majority do and some are very successful.

People in general just talk from their specific life view without thinking too deeply about it, NT and ND. You have to do what works for your family and be confident that nobody else knows how to run your ship as well as you do, seeing as they only see a tiny fraction of your life. And know not to share all your details!

My ND DD only eats 4 meals over and over again. She gags and cries over certain textures, always has done. Didn’t even seem to like drinking milk as a baby. She’s a teenager. A pleasant one, well-behaved in every way. I told a good friend about this and learned my lesson. Eye rolling, I couldn’t put up with that, she just has to get used to it, she’s too old to be doing that..

Okay.

I agree. I “came down hard” on certain behaviours with my DD before I knew she was autistic, and I’m afraid there’s some permanent trauma there as a result. The best thing her autism diagnosis did was teach me I needed to parent differently.

It really does seem that way.

I genuinely did not know this. I teach in a school with a hugely high proportion of ND children (non selective prep school so we get a lot who can't cope in state schools) and we refer to them as neurodiverse all the time! So, is it the case that everyone is neurodiverse but only people with ASD, ADHD, Dyslexia, PDA, ODD etc are neurodivergent? I've never used the word neurodivergent.

I agree with you on this especially when you see the way some of the people treat their children and hold them back from doing things because will cause them to meltdown when in fact it causes more problems in the long run.

Honestly, I'm fucking sick of seeing Neurodivergent vs Neurotypical bashing.
I've voted YABU because I'd say the majority of people are as empathic as they can be, whilst getting on with their own stressful, difficult, fucked up lives.
AuDHD lone parent (Mum) to AuDHD twin girls, aged 7.
Parts of parenting my girls on my own - especially the first 5 years - was arrant fucking hell. I've been kicked, scratched, bitten, punched, headbutted on multiple occasions by Twin 2.
That's only a facet of my ND parenting sob story.
I don't see much perfect parenting nor perfect NT child rhetoric on here.
Not here so much, but on Facebook, I see parents of ND children making excuses for often deplorable behaviour.
I think its swung the other way, wherein a lot of parents use their children's Neurodivergence as an excuse for letting them get away with behaviour.
I've done my fair share of shitty parenting, but I've also worked my butt off with my girls and I'm bloody proud of them as individuals.

I’m AuDHD.

The outcomes of a lot of poor parenting can look like (LOOK LIKE, for the people at the back) ADHD or autism. And that’s terrible for everyone.