Lucy Letby.....she might actually be innocent?!

[Dramatic]

I have just watched the full press conference and I'm blown away. There seems to be no actual evidence AT ALL that she killed or injured those babies. This could be one of the biggest miscarriages of justice there has ever been in this country.

Of course you don’t have a link because there is no evidence she has autism.

You really need to educate yourself on Neurodivergence before spouting nonsense

I find it weird when people bring this up - like are they just saying maybe her defence didn't bother calling any experts? That in a hugely high profile case with their client's life on the line for the most serious crimes imaginable, they just thought... nah. OBVIOUSLY there are very good reasons why they didn't call the expert witnesses and frankly, the only reasons that could possibly be are either that the experts had nothing convincing to say or - more likely - what the experts had to say would actually help support the prosecution.

@Pinckk as I said I am autistic myself and have an autistic DC so can resonate with her. Are you neurodivergent?

Deaths and near deaths rose in other hospitals where she worked. How is that explained? She seems a hugely unlucky person to have all this happen around her.

I do not find Lucy Letby remotely attractive.

Perhaps the reasonable explanation is that if those medical expert witnesses were lined up to testify in the defence case Letby’s barrister thought they wouldn’t be credible under cross examination. A press conference is very different to cross examination in court.

I'm autistic. I don't resonate with her because she's an evil baby murderer with a corresponding personality and I'm not. She's not diagnosed autistic and I find armchair diagnostics really offensive. If it was relevant to the trial, it would have been picked up on and mentioned. She's had a lot of in-depth health evaluations and none of them gave her a diagnosis, which she'd have been able to use in her defence when people talked about the inappropriate ways she interacts.

Really? Don't mean to derail the thread, but I am interested about the handover sheets. Is this the sheet that has a list of every patient on the ward, their medical conditions etc? Nurses at my local hospital leave them all over the public spaces on the paediatric ward. I've complained about it twice, because they obviously contain personal information about every patient, but it has had no impact.

There are widespread, systemic failures in most hospitals - deaths and near deaths are, sadly, the norm these days

If the deaths occurred as a result of hospital failures, then we would be doing the grieving families and those poor children a disservice by just labelling LL as guilty. We owe it to all involved to truly get to the bottom of what happened

At the last count 10 people close to me including parents, friends and my DP have had or died from cancer. Does that make me unlucky or do I spread viral cancer? A determined expert with research might make a case for that, as some cancers are believed to have a viral element. It would be absolute nonsense of course but you could argue I appear to be the common denominator.

I followed the trial very closely and I have reasonable doubts. She wasn’t even the named nurse or seen working with one of the babies that crashed. Medical evidence largely relied on the sharp shooter fallacy. Other evidence included the ramblings of a woman who thought her incompetence killed babies, and social media searches of people who’d lost their babies (which is the sort of thing I do with people whom I know have experienced something terrible). It’s all just not thorough enough.

I don’t think that this has anything to do with her being white. Serial killers tend to either have the dark triad or be suffering from a delusional psychotic illness. They don’t just kill. Letby showed none of those signs. Along with the weak evidence, I just don’t think it’s beyond a reasonable doubt at all

Maybe she worked for more than one failing hospital.

@MistressoftheDarkSide I am so sorry for your losses, but you make your point beautifully

It was obvious to any critical thinker (who doesn’t get swept up in drama) that the conviction was unsafe.

Lucy is extremely lucky the case was as high profile as it was, to get the attention of experts around the world to relook at the medical evidence.

Im also glad Lucy has the personal strength to stay hopeful, she could have killed herself as many wrongly accused people would have attempted when finding themselves in prison for the rest of their lives.

Her family and friends stuck by her.

There needs to be a serious review into how justice is found in the UK. How many smaller cases are wrongly judged and never looked into again.

This case is a good reason against the death penalty.

Presumably you have some acquaintance with Prof Mike Hall’s perspective as you’ve read the NYer article and his letter to the BMJ?

There's been a lot of misinformation on this thread. The notes didn't say 'they said I did this'. The note actually said: "I don't deserve to live". It also included the wording "I killed them on purpose because I'm not good enough to care for them", "I am a horrible evil person" and, in capital letters, "I am evil I did this".

Isn't it just so coincidental that the person who was scapegoated just happened to have this note in her handbag? And had also Facebook searched the parents of the babies that had been killed multiple times, years after their deaths? Including on Christmas day? And just happened to have handover notes for some of these babies in her house, having moved house with them twice, and even though she had a shredder? And just happened to have been on shift for all of their deaths? And just happened to have been inappropriately 'excited' around their deaths, upsetting the parents and her colleagues? And just happened to be found standing over a tiny baby with a dislodged tube having silenced the alarm, doing nothing? What a lot of coincidences from the writer of those innocent notes.

Matronic6

Medical evidence IS ESSENTIAL to convict a nurse of murdering neonates with huge medical problems when the hospital practices were abysmal. She is in jail with a 15 life year sentence.

They convicted her on circumstantial evidence and now a full panel of world expert paediatricians and neonates, have looked at each child death, looked at the clinical records and concluded that the children either died from natural causes or by gross clinical mismanagement.

There is no coming back from this. I don't know what LL lawyers will do but they should challenge her conviction on plausible miscarriage of justice with the new medical evidence.

That claim is absolutely worthless until it’s been properly evidenced and the evidence evaluated by qualified people. It hasn’t been; just irresponsible drip feeding by police involved in Hummingbird to try to shut down the inevitable rumblings about the safety of the conviction.

I would dearly love to know what you look like if you think even Margot Robbie doesn’t count as attractive. Do you have a partner? Did you scout them through a modelling agency.

Because she was working most on the shifts, but that doesn’t mean she’s a murderer. There has been questions about the reliability of the rota and what was shown to the jury. They were only shown part of the rota where she was present but had they shown a different part of the rota, it would show she wasn’t even present.

Everyone jumped on the serial killer idea because there would have been so many people at fault so she was scapegoated IMO.

If she wasn’t the nurse caring for them and hadn’t already been accused at the time of writing the notes then yes it would be a coincidence. As it is, not so much.

It’s worse than that even as there were a load of babies that also died when she wasn’t on shift. They cherry picked to make LL the common factor. That’s why she looked guilty.

the stats have been proven to be completely misleading. There is no evidence against her - it is circumstantial - based around a load of cherry picked deaths out of a much greater number.

It's not 'the norm' for babies in NICU to die at all. Most don't.

The cherry picking theory again... you do know she was on shift for 12 of the 13 deaths right - not just the ones she was tried for? They didn't try some of the others for whatever reason. Possibly other causes of death or not strong enough evidence. But just because the other ones weren't tried doesn't mean she wasn't there.

Interesting to read this thread as so many MNers would have had her thrown into an obliette and literally forgotten about.
I expect some on here had the thoughts she was evil from the onset. Personally I wasn't sure so I couldn't and still can't make a clear decision on the matter.