I do not believe in gender identity.

[SernieBanders]

There are two sexes: male and female. Occasionally, that matters.

There is no such thing as an innate gender identity—no internal essence that makes someone more inclined to wear dresses and sip wine, or football boots and down pints. Those are cultural stereotypes, not proof of some mystical gendered soul.

The idea of gender identity is sexist, misogynistic, and regressive. It reinforces outdated norms instead of challenging them. Women do not need an inner feeling of womanhood to be women. Men do not need a gender identity to be men. Sex is real. Stereotypes are not.

I hope with the flurry of cultural changes, legal challenges, scientific findings and executive orders in the last ~12 months, more people feel able to stand up and be counted, and say - No More.

and I stand by it. This thread is like a witch hunt. Making up things about people they didn’t say. Pure hysterics and uncontrolled anger . Or do u think I’m a trans women in disguise trying to silence people? And censor the topic. Erm

@Kalalily i completely agree it’s very worrying. I don’t actually know how much support is out there but it sounds abysmal from what you are saying.

‘Hysterics and uncontrolled anger’ 😂

Okay. Like I said, participation isn’t compulsory. I should probably take my own advice as this is pretty pointless (and boring).

Pot/kettle?

Now, how would most people take from repeated phrases like "There are soooo many threads already though" and "Just look at the million threads on the subject" and "(I) just find her thread pointless" about this very thread?

Many people would interpret that as "Just shut up about it". Understandably.

This thread isn’t changing anything though: it’s just a moan fest. It’d be different if you were out protesting and I told you to shut up. This is a mumsnet thread.

it’s just a moan fest

At this point, I can't disagree.

The first step in getting people to take action is to allow them to think about it and talk about it.

To know that others share their point of view. That gives them strength and impetus to then take action.

If you want to stop people, first censor their words and their thoughts. Make them feel it is unacceptable to have them.

Censorship obstructs dialogue and inhibits informed discussion. Learners who never encounter challenging content are unprepared for authentic participation in our society; having never considered alternative perspectives, they may not be prepared to explicate their own beliefs.

I would have checked out of this thread ages and ages ago if the op hadn’t started making up things I didn’t say and posting it. No one seems to think that’s inappropriate for some reason. The op is to blame for derailing the thread .

This thread isn’t changing anything though

This isn't true though. When threads like this are out in the open, there are many more people reading it than commenting on it. When people post misinformation about the pretend science of gender identity and DSDs, and the brilliant posters who take the time to rebut the tedious nonsense with facts, people read that. This is evidenced by likes/thanks on posts from people who aren’t commenting, and from lurkers who eventually pop and say they’re lurking and they’ve learnt a lot.

Every time there’s a thread like this, a number of people learn new things, or have their eyes opened. They then pass that on to people they know. On the first page I pointed out to a poster that “innate gender identity” is the reason a famous gender clinician justifies sterilising children. Maybe that one poster reflects on this. Maybe others do too.

When you add up all the threads that have done this here, posters on Mumsnet have been one of the single best sources in the world to clearly push back on the problems with gender ideology.

It’s why trans activists target this site to stop people posting what they don’t want others to know, because when they said “Educate Yourself!” they’ve come to learn that the more people do, the more they realise how dangerous an ideology it really is.

So yes, threads like this make a big difference.

@NotBadConsidering thanks for that. regardless, bullying isn’t appropriate

No one has bullied you. You said the thread was anti-trans and people asked you to back that up. Then you said people are being hysterical and moaning. I don’t see a victim there, personally.

We don’t know that this thread isn’t changing anything though do we?

There may be teachers reading this who will think twice before affirming a traumatised autistic child. Maybe they’ll even feel brave enough to take it to the senior leadership team and start a conversation around the Cass Report and it’s recommendations)

Maybe some GPs are reading and will think twice before fulfilling that gender GP prescription (it is common for doctors to post advice on other threads but I have not yet seen medical professionals, apart from the odd psychologist post anything on trans threads)

There may be parents at their wits end who will think twice about how to support their child.

The majority of the population are not directly affected by this topic but they are affirming in the name of being kind and the Cass report does not believe that affirmation is without harm so the more conversation there is on this subject the better

@NotBadConsidering they have actually several threads were deleted and deemed inappropriate. Name calling and telling lies about people IS bullying.

This really is mind blowing. Well done to the councillor and her colleague for standing up to the Chair. Shocking that it has come to this though

Two posts have been deleted on this thread, and I note you have withdrawn one. I don’t know what you mean by “several threads”

Name calling and telling lies about people IS bullying

What, like calling everyone who posts here “anti-trans”?

There is such hyperbole on mumsnet about this topic and everyone on mumsnet is so anti trans

We get it, you think everyone is anti trans, hysterical and moaning. You think you’ve been bullied. But you still haven’t answered the question about why you think it’s anti trans, and you for some reason brought up your bullying worry in a reply about the purpose of the thread. Can you stick to the topic in hand?

There is no such thing as innate gender identity. Do you agree or disagree?

It is educational to promote this skepticism so people can appreciate that they’re not alone in their concerns. Do you agree or disagree?

It is not “anti trans” to not believe in a particular belief system. Do you agree or disagree?

(Of note, even Stonewall has conceded the last point.)

It was a thread just like this one that brought my attention to what was happening as I read it and realised that the thread related to exactly what my friend had just told me about with her daughter and what my own teen at the time was saying to me that I didn't understand.

For some posters to dismiss a thread because you (generally) don't find it helpful is ignoring the many people who still have to get a deeper understanding of what has been happening in their lives, their families, their schools and their work place.

I also know that there are numerous women who have reported the same. That they have come across a thread as a new reader on MN and realised that they didn't understand the issues with any depth. They have then gone on to challenge their schools policies, written to MPs, and to Ministers for Justice / Sport / etc and got involved.

Just because some posters find a thread boring or repetitive, doesn't mean that the thread is not useful. I would think, like me, that there will be readers reading along and finding that some people's words resonate and help them articulate their own thoughts more clearly. Simply by find a poster's argument helps to get their thoughts digging deeper.

And it's because all the above is true that those with an agenda insist MN move such threads from active sections like AIBU to FWR.

They know that people learn new things, or have their eyes opened - AND THEY DON'T WANT THAT HAPPENING.

god you are still here whining on and on and on on the "boring thread".

I'm afraid it is you and all your whining that has made the thread boring. You have contributed nothing but complaining and whinging.

You can't back up any points you have made (actually its very unclear what points you have been trying to make apart from calling us all very boring and angry & hysterical) and you don't want to contribute to any debate we are having.

As we also have seen on this very thread, there has been numerous posters who have tried to post misinformation that is not only misleading but false about people who have differences of sex development. Understanding the reasons why some people leverage other groups such as those with these medical conditions becomes really important in these discussions.

Because there is so much misinformation posted. Just know where to look to get original source information or expert opinions to consider is really important in understanding what is happening.

There have been quite a few links posted on this thread so far and some excellent posts explaining issues, in saying 'there is nothing new here' is either an indication that those posters making that statement are well up to date in the latest developments, which is great and that is something new to discover.

I mean Trump signed another EO yesterday to protect female sports categories as best he can with an EO. It included a directive that may significantly impact the upcoming Olympic Games there. That will be a huge result if it does that. Already though, it has forced the NCAA to finalise their policy around transgender competitors over night. Well, that and the fact they are now being sued by three very brave female swimmers which was also just announced. So, well done those who are so up to date on the latest developments.

Perhaps there are more threads in AIBU because there is SO much happening just in this week and the week before.

It could be also indicating that some posters just aren't interested in coming to a deeper understanding generally about this so that when specific issues do then get discussed on threads they are interested in reading, they are the posters who are not as well informed as they believe they are (and those posters might receive some pushback then too).

Or it is an indication that the poll results that YouGov published recently are very much on track and that the more the population learn about the negative impacts to other groups in prioritising gender identity over sex, the less they support the policy and law changes that have happened.

Either way, I think there is always something to learn from reading these threads. New links to read, new well thought out explanatory posts, new information discussed.

This has been going on for a while.

Here's a thread from a few years ago: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4193803-Is-there-any-such-thing-as-gender-identity

-- The answer to the question in the thread title, "Is there such a thing as gender identity?" turns out to be a clear and resounding, "No."

Nothing has happened since to change that answer. But I suspect more people are coming to see the truth of it.

Several years on and we still don't have any agreed defintions for words that sit at the heart of these issues like:
gender
transgender

Meaning so much energy can be used talking at crossed purposes.

While most of us know woman = adult human female, many in this debate dispute this and say woman = anyone who says they are a woman, making meaningful discourse virtually impossible.

Not reading any more of these whiny posts . Only reason I’m still here is to stick up for myself after being bullied. Focus on the issue at hand instead of fixating on me.. ridiculous