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I do not believe in gender identity.

1000 replies

SernieBanders · 04/02/2025 09:05

There are two sexes: male and female. Occasionally, that matters.

There is no such thing as an innate gender identity—no internal essence that makes someone more inclined to wear dresses and sip wine, or football boots and down pints. Those are cultural stereotypes, not proof of some mystical gendered soul.

The idea of gender identity is sexist, misogynistic, and regressive. It reinforces outdated norms instead of challenging them. Women do not need an inner feeling of womanhood to be women. Men do not need a gender identity to be men. Sex is real. Stereotypes are not.

I hope with the flurry of cultural changes, legal challenges, scientific findings and executive orders in the last ~12 months, more people feel able to stand up and be counted, and say - No More.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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SernieBanders · 05/02/2025 10:56

Duckinahat · 05/02/2025 10:53

Not sure what DSD is to do with trans / gender identity. Are we saying that e.g. the Dr in the NHS Fife case is anything other than a born man? Because he seems to be biologically male to me!

the adding of the "I" to LGBTQI was to deliberately cloud the definition of sex. if someone can be "intersex" then surely people can change sex and be born in the wrong body

However, the term Intersex is misleading, as people still have a 100% sex.

it was a deliberate ploy

another reason to separate LGB from the rest of the alphabet

OP posts:
Helleofabore · 05/02/2025 10:56

2JFDIYOLO · 05/02/2025 10:44

So many children and teens who say they are trans have so much else going on beneath. It's tip of the iceberg.

Autism is a major element - for a young person feeling they don't belong, especially if they have no interest in what their sex is 'supposed' to like, do, wear etc, have difficulty navigating relationships and others' behaviour, are aghast at the changes in their own adolescent bodies and the way people behave towards them, the promise that 'all you have to do is ...' must be very seductive.

A growing same sex attraction can be misread and isolating. I remember an interview with girls at a local school saying lesbians are looked at with suspicion - but transboys are cool. Being the target of homophobia must make that alternate very attractive.

Early trauma might be a factor. Eddie Izzard has said he knew from the age of five - but this was his age when his mother died, so surely that must have been a traumatised little boy's reaction to loss.

The activist Scott Nugent says

"Drives me NUTS when people in the news say medical transition is reversible, safe & life saving.

Here are just my complications.

  1. Chronic bladder infections
  2. At least 20 rounds of antibiotics a year
  3. Handicapped Arm
  4. Blood Thinners For Life
  5. Lymphedema
  6. Anti Bloating meds for life
  7. Pulmonary Embolism
  8. Stress induced heart attack
  9. Urinary medication for life
  1. Carpel tunnel
  2. Heart Issues

Stopped T Experienced:

  1. Loss of 5 teeth due to bone deterioration, need them all pulled and dentures at 52
  2. One hair line fracture in my arm"

To me, expert and compassionate psychiatric care, including understanding of autism and trauma, must be the first and preferred option, especially for young people, over drugs that delay physical and neurological development, surgery that sterilises and neuters, and the experimental nature of so much of it, with lifelong complications.

Edited

This is stark. And it needs to be posted regularly and often.

Scott has been very brave in her honesty. There is a reason that she is abused whenever she says anything, it is because the transition impacts on the female body are brutal, they are life limiting and too often life shortening. And they are regularly dismissed.

I have seen posters on AIBU dismiss these side effects as being 'just like knee replacement regret'. I have seen posters on AIBU dismiss any regret as 'just part of any medical treatment'.

What has become very apparent to me, with interaction now with numerous male people who are pushing for all children and adults to have freely flowing access to cross sex hormones, puberty blockers and surgeries, is that those male people require the female people's experiences to be dismissed. Because if it becomes wide public knowledge of just how brutal, life limiting and potentially life shortening female treatments are , then it will mean that what is known as gender affirming treatment will be even more heavily scrutinised, and heavily regulated.

So, therefore, there is much done to remove female voices like Scott Nugent's out of the public sphere.

maddening · 05/02/2025 10:56

snowmichael · 05/02/2025 10:23

> It didn't exist when we were hunter gatherers.
https://www.insp.com/blog/old-west-native-american-women-warriors
Wrong again

Are you saying that native Americans were cavemen and neanderthals?

Helleofabore · 05/02/2025 10:57

maddening · 05/02/2025 10:52

Ps @Helleofabore I am just agreeing with you

I know.

Helleofabore · 05/02/2025 11:02

Duckinahat · 05/02/2025 10:53

Not sure what DSD is to do with trans / gender identity. Are we saying that e.g. the Dr in the NHS Fife case is anything other than a born man? Because he seems to be biologically male to me!

Extreme trans activists, those who insist that gender prioritises sex in matters when sex is important (ie. not those who campaign that they are not illegitimately discriminated against), leverage other group's medical conditions to erroneously explain why 'sex' is not a stable and scientifically explained concept. They need people's medical conditions to destabilise the sex binary to then be able to say that there is evidence to support their philosophical belief that a person can be 'born in the wrong body' and to support that some male people can really be female people.

It is all based on misinformation and pseudoscientific theory.

MariaThomasFangs · 05/02/2025 11:03

snowmichael · 05/02/2025 10:13

Yeah, you don't understand the causes of gender dysphoria at all
Fortunately, there's a wealth of information for anyone with the intelligence to seek it out and read it
www.news-medical.net/health/Causes-of-Gender-Dysphoria.aspx

Patronising much? I understand perfectly well. Maybe you should educate yourself.

maddening · 05/02/2025 11:03

Duckinahat · 05/02/2025 10:53

Not sure what DSD is to do with trans / gender identity. Are we saying that e.g. the Dr in the NHS Fife case is anything other than a born man? Because he seems to be biologically male to me!

It has nothing to do with it - The TRAs have for a long time used DSD as some sort of gotcha to bolster their argument and tried to say it showed that sex is a spectrum (which it isn't and can't be - as there is no spectrum of gametes - they are large or small and no one produces both, nor is there a third gamete) - they also have stolen language used for people with DSD - sex assigned at birth. Fucking outrageous imo

Helleofabore · 05/02/2025 11:04

Helleofabore · 04/02/2025 18:13

The only thing that makes a male brain male and vice versa is whether it has been shaped to fit into a male skull or a female skull. There are some structural differences in that configuration. Is that what you mean?

It is also documented that a female person has a brain that has more delicate brain fibres making them more susceptible to injury.

What has been studied is that hormones will interact with brain activity in different ways. So, if a male person takes estrogen, their male brain will have reactions to that hormone. It does not make those brains 'female'.

What has also been studied is that shared interests and occupations will also show similar reactions in the brain. Such as the study of London cabbies. So, of course, if a male person has interests that are more common in female people, then there may be some commonality in that activity in the brain.

However a male brain is a male brain. Because if a male person without a transgender identity takes estrogen and has some interests common with female people, their brain will be the same as a male person taking the same drugs and with the same interests. And be the same shape as a male and in a male body.

If you believe that a male person can have a 'female brain' or vice versa, if have any evidence at all to support your claim here, please link us up. It might be something new that we have not seen.

@snowmichael

Just posting this here, because in all of your posting this morning, you seem to have missed this in reply to your posts about male and female brains.

Duckinahat · 05/02/2025 11:07

Helleofabore · 05/02/2025 11:02

Extreme trans activists, those who insist that gender prioritises sex in matters when sex is important (ie. not those who campaign that they are not illegitimately discriminated against), leverage other group's medical conditions to erroneously explain why 'sex' is not a stable and scientifically explained concept. They need people's medical conditions to destabilise the sex binary to then be able to say that there is evidence to support their philosophical belief that a person can be 'born in the wrong body' and to support that some male people can really be female people.

It is all based on misinformation and pseudoscientific theory.

Is that not just bonkers, and really quite exploitative?

TheKeatingFive · 05/02/2025 11:07

DSDs have been introduced to muddy the waters and try to convince people that sex is 'more complicated' than we previously thought.

It's a deliberate and cynical ploy. There is pretty much zero overlap between those with DSDs and those who claim to be trans (as far as I can see). And those with DSDs are always either one sex or the other.

Confusion benefits the TRA cause. Let's always seek to clarify.

Hairyesterdaygonetoday · 05/02/2025 11:16

Pilloecat · 04/02/2025 10:35

Transphobia is inherently misogynistic, anti-feminist and just plain boring. You have been fed extremist hate from media and silly buggers like jk Rowling. Parroting it doesn’t make you a free thinker.

Listen to trans people instead of basing your view of them on what hateful people say. This nonsense is just the gay panic rebranded, and I find it very sad. I don’t respond to bigots so if this comment makes you feel upset, please look inwards, don’t waste both our time trying to argue with me- I won’t see your reply. Try to find empathy for one of the most maligned groups of people in society today.

Winner of today’s “How many genderist fake-facts and cliches can you cram into one post” challenge ….

ChowMoWan · 05/02/2025 11:27

I can't believe the idea of lady brains is still being trotted out in 2025.

Duckinahat · 05/02/2025 11:31

I don’t understand the conflation with gay rights either. Giving gay people rights took no rights away from straight people. Giving transwomen the same rights as women takes away women’s rights, obviously.

To trans activists not understand that women are pissed off from being told that they have to give up their rights otherwise they are bigots? To trans rights activists think that by demanding women give up their rights to them they are helping trans people?

SerendipityJane · 05/02/2025 11:33

I don’t understand the conflation with gay rights either.

Trojan (no, not that type 😀) horse

PersephoneSmith · 05/02/2025 11:40

snowmichael · 05/02/2025 09:52

Biological sex?
Like XXY, XYY, and XX(male)?
Or people with both male and female genitalia?
Your ignorance is outrageous but not, sadly, astonishing

you are completely wrong. Biological sex is science fact, there are two, male and female. We have explained above about some anomalies such as XXY however it remains a fact that theses very rare cases are still either male or female.
Gender identity is a social construct. Completely. You cannot be a man in a male body and 'feel more like a woman' it is not possible.

No one knows how anybody else 'feels' you can only feel like you.
No feelings are inherently male or female. None.
No behaviours are exclusive to men or women.

It's rather tiresome trying to explain, it is so fucking obviously true. Those of us who are critical of gender woo simply cannot fathom how grown adults with a brain can think that a man is a literal woman simply because he says he feels like one.

Helleofabore · 05/02/2025 11:45

Duckinahat · 05/02/2025 11:07

Is that not just bonkers, and really quite exploitative?

Yes to both.

However, the activist groups who are campaigning for the extreme measures have made it part of their strategy. There is a document labelled as the 'Denton's' report where it lays out the strategy for leveraging other group's oppression and the empathy that society has for these groups to enable them to get laws and policies through that include transgender people.

It was why the T has been attached to the LGB. It is why there is misinformation about a man who had a drag queen persona 'Marsha' has been claimed as being 'transgender', despite video evidence of him saying before he died that he was not transgender but was a man. But then it is said that Marsha was one of the first people to throw a brick at Stonewall riots, when it is more likely that he was asleep as people who knew him remembered.

It has happened in Ireland where when same sex marriage laws were created, the lobby groups successfully had laws around gender identity included.

Here is a document where the Transgender Law Center in the USA released a communication guide to leverage other group's oppression to progress the political aims of transgender people where male people will be fully accepted as female people. They relied heavily on race as well.

Messaging Guide : Transgender Youth and the Freedom to Be Ourselves
From December 2021

static1.squarespace.com/static/5fd0f29d0d626c5fb471be74/t/61b13d00236e2f7f2dbb9a36/1639005441624/Transgender+Youth+and+the+Freedom+to+Be+Ourselves.pdf

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4439659-Ryan-Grim-results-of-latest-trans-activism-poll-A-tweaked-playbook-for-the-US?reply=113763453

Language is a massive part of the strategy.

Here is something from the Green Party in the UK where they show how to address the language issue.

https://lgbtiqa.greenparty.org.uk/2023/06/15/dogwhistle-guidance/

Ryan Grim: results of latest trans activism poll. A tweaked playbook for the US ? | Mumsnet

This is well worth watching. I will look for more information as to who commissioned and if the full results are published. Basically, they have d...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4439659-Ryan-Grim-results-of-latest-trans-activism-poll-A-tweaked-playbook-for-the-US?reply=113763453

Helleofabore · 05/02/2025 11:59

Duckinahat · 05/02/2025 11:31

I don’t understand the conflation with gay rights either. Giving gay people rights took no rights away from straight people. Giving transwomen the same rights as women takes away women’s rights, obviously.

To trans activists not understand that women are pissed off from being told that they have to give up their rights otherwise they are bigots? To trans rights activists think that by demanding women give up their rights to them they are helping trans people?

It is here that discussions need to acknowledge 'legitimate' and 'illegitimate' discrimination. And additional privileges. I hope that this will help others to work out how some activists have managed to manipulate society by conflating these.

Apologies, this is a cut and paste from another post I did a while back on how legitimate and illegitimate discrimination works specifically around the access to toilets and single sex spaces. The difference is one of legitimate and illegitmate discrimination. And actually equality too.

People who are same sex attracted (or to both sexes) were subject to illegitimate discrimination when people declared they should not access toilets of the same sex. For clarity: male people accessing male toilets if they were a homosexual male were not asking for special treatment under any safeguarding principles or indeed, in life. They were asking, and rightfully so, for EQUAL treatment and equal protection.

This is the same argument for race.

Male people demanding access to female single sex spaces are demanding ADDITIONAL accommodations be made because of their gender identity. This is not a demand for EQUALITY.

It was always wrong to deny a person who was homosexual or bisexual access to a facility that matched their sex when that discrimination was based on their sexual orientation.

For instance, one group of male people have no extra rights over other male people in demanding that they have privacy involving being completely separated from other male people in a facility designated as single sex for male people. Again, singling out same sex or both sex attracted people to be excluded, would be illegitimate discrimination.

This is, of course, not the case for excluding all male bodies from female single sex spaces, except for male children under a particular age who would require care from a female person.

It is NOT wrong to exclude male people from a female single sex space because they are male.

There is a necessary form of discrimination that is used for calculating safeguarding risks which is based on sexed bodies. The only 'negative' impact it has is to exclude one sex from a space designated as single sex for safety purposes. This discrimination has been the basis of sex segregated spaces since those spaces became available to public life. Despite the deception that some male people used to gain access and this deception being wedge to leverage a false argument that female people 'never had toilets without male people accessing them'.

Male bodies are excluded from female single sex spaces also on the grounds of privacy and dignity. Not just safety.

Homosexual male people were wrongfully discriminated against based on no statistical evidence at all, just prejudice. This has, rightfully, been prevented with law. Because it was statistically inaccurate.

The fact remains that the comparator should start with 'does one group of male people have a lower risk profile compared to ALL other male people in the UK' ?
The answer for gay male people is 'no' and it was likely always no. Besides, they were not seeking unequal treatment.

If you are arguing that any male person over about 8 should be included in any single sex female space, you should need to provide evidence that the group of male people you are advocating for have not just a lower risk of committing sex crime than all other male people in the UK. You also need to provide evidence that they commit sex crime at the same or lower rate than all female people in the UK.

People with disabilities rightfully need additional accommodations. They are asking for equality of opportunity rather than direct equal treatment. It can be argued that people who do not have a disability should not be using a disabled toilet though. That is a provision, unless signage indicates otherwise, for a specific group of people.

It is NOT wrong to exclude male people from a female single sex space because they are male. The protected characteristic is SEX not GENDER in this instance.

Insisting that male people have access to female single sex spaces are insisting on additional privileges.

Because they are demanding that they, as male people, are exempt as a sub group of male people from safeguarding policies that exclude ALL male people. ie. They don't want to be treated as all other males are being treated, they want to be treated as if gender identity erases a group's general risk.

They are also demanding this privilege despite it being not backed up with statistics (quite the opposite) and they are doing this using emotionally manipulative tactics, including leveraging other group's historical oppression to achieve their political aims.

Helleofabore · 05/02/2025 12:00

maddening · 05/02/2025 10:56

Are you saying that native Americans were cavemen and neanderthals?

I actually could not understand the relevance of that link.

ChowMoWan · 05/02/2025 12:01

Helleofabore · 05/02/2025 12:00

I actually could not understand the relevance of that link.

Just catching up on the thread, and so far as I can see, none of the links posted so far by genderists have been remotely relevant or even supported the arguments they think they have been making. Quite telling...

maddening · 05/02/2025 12:09

Helleofabore · 05/02/2025 12:00

I actually could not understand the relevance of that link.

Me either 🤣

SerendipityJane · 05/02/2025 12:10

Gender identity is a social construct. Completely. You cannot be a man in a male body and 'feel more like a woman' it is not possible.

As stated repeatedly, the fact we can't ask a dog it's gender identity is a defining fact in this discussion.

Gender identity is invented. Same as Strictly, the US postal system and digital watches. Which axiomatically means there are no objective definitions.

A consensus on anything subjective is not only impossible. But downright dangerous. What colour was that dress ?

CautiousLurker01 · 05/02/2025 12:20

Helleofabore · 05/02/2025 12:00

I actually could not understand the relevance of that link.

Me neither. Aside from the fact it was a blog, rather than a peer reviewed research piece, it seemed to be illustrating that the idea of confining people to gender based roles (ie sexism and misogyny) is very much a trait of western culture? Which is kind of the issue, isn’t it? After all, if we didn’t have the notion of what men v women should and should not be able to do, there would be no gender ideology.

CautiousLurker01 · 05/02/2025 12:26

SerendipityJane · 05/02/2025 12:10

Gender identity is a social construct. Completely. You cannot be a man in a male body and 'feel more like a woman' it is not possible.

As stated repeatedly, the fact we can't ask a dog it's gender identity is a defining fact in this discussion.

Gender identity is invented. Same as Strictly, the US postal system and digital watches. Which axiomatically means there are no objective definitions.

A consensus on anything subjective is not only impossible. But downright dangerous. What colour was that dress ?

Hard agree. Even as a biological woman, I can only explain what feeling myself [as a woman] feels like. I can’t actually extrapolate that experience or those feelings onto every other woman on the planet, even if I suspect there is some overlap or shared empathy between us. I have no idea what it is like to ‘feel like a woman’ in Afghanistan, a black female slave in the colonies, or a lesbian grandmother in Wood Green - so I have no idea how a man can have any insight either.

SerendipityJane · 05/02/2025 12:28

CautiousLurker01 · 05/02/2025 12:26

Hard agree. Even as a biological woman, I can only explain what feeling myself [as a woman] feels like. I can’t actually extrapolate that experience or those feelings onto every other woman on the planet, even if I suspect there is some overlap or shared empathy between us. I have no idea what it is like to ‘feel like a woman’ in Afghanistan, a black female slave in the colonies, or a lesbian grandmother in Wood Green - so I have no idea how a man can have any insight either.

Clearly we aren't equipped to be trans whisperers then

CautiousLurker01 · 05/02/2025 12:30

SerendipityJane · 05/02/2025 12:28

Clearly we aren't equipped to be trans whisperers then

My lack of empathy may signal I am a sociopath, though, along with being a transphobic bigot…

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