To be concerned about what Liz Kendall is up to with disability benefits?

[Locutus2000]

The Times reporting just how enthusiastic Labour are about targeting the disabled.

I can only hope they are getting the worst ideas out there first, if not I dread to think what is coming in the upcoming review.

I was confident Labour would at worst be no worse than the Tories.

I was wrong.

Free archive link here.

@Tittat50 I know a lot of people with ADHD. Some struggle with things like booking holidays and get friends to help. Some manage their life better than me.
Life is bloody hard for most of us.

@kitteninabasket always lie about any mental health conditions to employers. There is massive stigma

Yes this! There shouldn’t be the possibility to get “paid” twice. My friend gets DLA for her DS who is autistic and she gets £3000 a month! That’s about the same as DH takes home earning £60k! Even she admits she can’t believe how much money she gets. It’s all very well and good but that’s a lot of money.

I am on UC for MH reasons, and I am terrified about how any changes will pan out for me.
On another thread that was a similar topic, I said my money being cut in half would make me suicidal. I was told that I was using emotional blackmail to shut down the conversation (totally untrue). People not facing what might be coming have no clue.

I don’t think anyone wants the disabled to suffer. However, there comes a time that when you have far more net takers than contributors - something has to give. People have been clapping away at things like private schools tax, business NI tax, nom dom tax so and and so forth. Problem is, when the people who are bankrolling the state can’t get jobs, are made redundant or throw the towel in because tax is punitive. This is the result. The writing was on the wall for a long time. The problem is, the genuinely ill and disabled will now suffer.

The issue is, people thought they could keep voting for largesse at the expense of the treasury and everyone else. No-one stopped to think that an anti-growth government which taxed business and people out of productivity would result in a smaller state. Less productivity = smaller state. People didn’t think through their choice and will now have to deal with it. The employment market in the private sector is scary right now. They can’t fund the huge welfare bill. State sector jobs will be next.

Because you just aren't allowed to even use the word suicidal without people shitting themselves and throwing Samaritans numbers out in panic.

We need to be open and honest and admit, people will be wanting to kill themselves when you add together the stress and misery of struggling with very real problems, being gaslit by professionals who often feel they have no other choice due to no resources. Then you add in these new stressors for people who already struggle. Well of course it will drive people to suicide or to attempt it.

They won't ever adequately record those statistics either. Just another ' mental case' who didn't try hard enough.

Absolute madness isn't it. A lot of my older clients ( many of whom have always led frugal lives) are genuinely embarrassed at the amounts I tell them they can claim. Some choose not to, some only claim when they absolutely need to like when they have to start paying for care, others of course will take all they can !

Where are the jobs for disabled people going to come from? I have gaps on my CV due to times where I had to stop working for a few months to have surgery or recover from my latest burnout. That can definitely be an issue when applying for jobs.

I haven't RTFT but yes this ^^

From what I understand, people on out of work benefits (this includes job seekers as well as disability benefits) vastly outnumber job vacancies. Unless things have changed in the last month?

Also as Cattreesea says a lot of employers don't want to hire disabled people or those with health issues

The only way around that is positive discrimination, where employers have to fill all vacancies with someone currently on disability benefits. I doubt that would go down well with employers, or with other jobseekers both those currently on jobseekers or those in work but looking for a job change.

With mental health. Many people are struggling with their mental health due to poverty, poor housing, and stress* (including the process of applying for benefits, and trying to survive financially on them). Not to mention failing health and social care services.

Without addressing these issues - the need for affordable and safe housing, a strong and compassionate financial safety net, and good access to effective support services, people will get more rather than less ill.

*This refers to severe stress, as opposed to the everyday bogstandard stress we all experience at times.

I receive PIP and the majority of has to go on the insane costs of having a leasehold flat in a less than 10 year old building full of defects, which was sold to me as "affordable housing" and purchased with the help of a government scheme. In the last two months I've been hit with three bills totalling £3k, including a £1.5k service charge excess for the year (whopping insurance premium as building is virtually uninsurable, huge increases in fire safety measures since Grenfell, and the cost of bringing all the electrics up to standard after the 2024 amendment to the wiring regulations, among other things). I have another big bill on the way.

If I didn't have PIP I don't know what I'd do because no one here is able to sell their flat in the building's current state and with the current charges. It feels like everything is fucked.

People are currently claiming disability benefits rather than fighting for well paid jobs. The answer isn't to legislate to force employers to pay employees artificially high wages. We already earn relatively high wages in the uk - it doesn't seem to stop people claiming benefits rather than working.

No-one stopped to think that an anti-growth government which taxed business and people out of productivity would result in a smaller state. Less productivity = smaller state. People didn’t think through their choice and will now have to deal with it. The employment market in the private sector is scary right now. They can’t fund the huge welfare bill. State sector jobs will be next

People didn't want to hear it.

Yes exactly. Loads of my clients use their PIP or want to claim PIP because their UC rent element no where near covers their actual rent. One of my alcohol dependent clients has bene awarded £500 a month PIP and it helps her to stay in a 3 bed house in an area where she feels safe but would otherwise be unable to afford. If her PIP is taken away she will be stuffed.

I do see what you're saying. But there are other targets who are not so easy to punish. Alot of these claimants are very genuine, very afraid and are not living a life of luxury. The proportion claimed ' unnecessarily ' I don't believe is even of significance.

I want to add this link and see if anyone is so upset by the costs associated with these bloody grifters... .
https://www.republic.org.uk/halfbillionroyals

And why not ? Why aren't the public so upset by this?

I think a great deal of the well and able secretly want the sick and disabled to disappear and die as long as they don't have to witness it. But you're only a few steps from being in this group, trust me from experience.

There are too many people on benefits. There are people who could work but are not making any effort to. The benefits system needs to be overhauled to be more nuanced, but also to support people into work so that if they need to work fewer hours to keep their benefits they can, or if they genuinely try but the job does not wok out they can get benefits back. There are may ways the system could be updated without disadvantaging the the people who really cannot work.

Having suffered mental health issues (ptsd/anxiety/depression) for many years I think work is extremely important- yes it’s extremely difficult at times, some mornings I’ve actively had to choose getting on the train rather than jumping in front of it, but it’s something that requires you to get out the house and put one foot in front of the other..

But it’s bloody difficult, mental health is very difficult, often there is no cure, ultimately the only person who can help you deal with it is the person suffering. You can get help to find coping mechanisms- but it ultimately down to the sufferer.

But there is no help with the NHS, there’s very little understanding of the very wholistic treatment people need to be undertaking daily. We need to be honest with metal health, we need to be offering wholistic support..We need to recognise some people are quite some distance of being in a position to participate in treatment. We need to be looking at society as to why so many people are suffering from mental health issues.

We need a different approach to the sticking plaster and abandonment of suffers. What are Labour doing to do to help improve mental health.

I'll have to conduct further research into this. I can't guarantee better salaries will change everything as I need to research examples if I can.

I have a strong sense it will change a fair amount for that group able to work who don't earn as much working as benefits. I don't believe everyone is inherently lazy in this group.

As for fighting - as a nation, we don't vigorously fight for anything it seems. I don't fully understand that tbh.

The state has chosen to make so so difficult and highly taxed for those on £70k a year plus (the top 10%, £70k is about £3900 a month net after student loan but before pension contributions) that there is a massive incentive to work less as those of us on those high pay levels have the highest tax burden in 70 years. Not surprisingly people work less.

The state has chosen under the Tories and now Labour to impose huge disincentives to work harder such as no child benefit at a certain level, then no personal tax allowance at another level, no "30 free hours" for your 9 month year old just the 15 free hours in term time for 3 year olds which asylum seekers get which is worth about £2400 when full time childcare for 2 babies is about £60k in London and those employing childcare only small employers in the country who don't get exempt from employer NI.

There are not enough jobs for people that are actively looking, let alone disabled too.

Anyone on welfare, who voted for Labour can look at their own choices and take some responsibility. Labour have been very vocal about this. Economists who said their budget, which has damaged employment and jobs, would lead to a smaller state. People didn’t want to hear it. They thought they could just keep voting for more and more welfare/state spending and not face the consequences of what excessive tax does.

People stupidly thought that Labour would chuck money at welfare and state because they weren’t the Tories. They didn’t think through what would happen when the workers paying huge amounts of tax to pay for it all, drop hours or lose their jobs due to the taxes in the budget. That’s before you get in to the roll back with non-doms. They voted for a smaller state because the Labour government are destroying the sector who pays for it. Ironically state spending will probably have to be cut harder now.

I agree. We are in a situation now where people are better off being permanently on disability benefits than working. People have no incentive to work as a result. It's unaffordable and bad for trust within society as a whole if a large section are not contributing.

A couple of posters have mentioned suicide. Firstly, I'm so sorry for anyone on here who's frightened about what might happen regarding your vital financial support. It's not a society I want to be part of, one that punches down on the vulnerable. I sincerely hope it's not a society we continue to be.

Secondly, it's a known fact, reported on and confirmed by official sources, that previous disability benefit so-called reforms have led to quite a few suicides.

As for the net contributor argument. Do we really want to go down that slippery slope road? A friend of mine is a single man, no kids. He works, is in good health, and not on any benefits. However if he were to god forbid become ill in the future and was then denied sufficient financial support, he could justifiably question why his taxes supported other people's children but then finds there's insufficient support for him when he needs it. Despite being a parent, I'd struggle to disagree with him.

A common scenario I see is people in their late fifties and early sixties. Their mortgage is paid off, they don't need a great deal to live off especially if they have a partner still working. Many could work but for some it makes no sense to try to carry on working even reduced hours. They can adequately manage on ESA and PIP. They are just biding their time until state retirement age with no intention of even trying to work again. there seems to be very little in the way of ESA reassessments, they are so far behind with these since covid that people knw there is little chance of being re-assessed.

@Andwhoisasking my knowledge of politics is not great. I think you may have been the poster who talked about personal responsibility ( you're absolutely right), also this problem we have with how people absorb the news and what they're told.
I'm forever challenging family members on what they just heard on some news channel. It doesn't seem to matter the source anymore, something is always left out and people are misinformed.

So not wishing to absolve of personal responsibility, I do wonder how the everyday man decides who to vote for and where their main source of info comes from.

I am very unwell ( hence this thread interest). My illness had me so incapacitated I didn't even vote this time because I was out of action completely. I therefore have no place to speak. However, If I'm honest, I would have voted Labour had I been capable at the time. For the reasons you highlight.

I believe people are both misinformed and misled and maybe distracted by shit on SM. I wonder what the case may have been for me.

You seem to have a good understanding of this. What's the answer? I don't know. Not everyone knows where to go for information or realise that they're being so misled.

My most valued and appreciated source of insight and growth is from here ( MN). I shit you not.

I wonder if so many of the pro immigration posters are so passionate about us " doing our bit " now they realise the costs involve their benefits cut. Time for the financial stupidity of the left to kick in - time to pay the piper