To be concerned about what Liz Kendall is up to with disability benefits?

[Locutus2000]

The Times reporting just how enthusiastic Labour are about targeting the disabled.

I can only hope they are getting the worst ideas out there first, if not I dread to think what is coming in the upcoming review.

I was confident Labour would at worst be no worse than the Tories.

I was wrong.

Free archive link here.

@Hotflushesandchilblains

Where are the jobs?

Have things drastically changed in the last couple of months? If no, then there aren't enough job vacancies for everyone on jobseekers, let alone those on disability benefits.

Anyone under £40k is not contributing either. Do you think all the disabled people being thrown off benefits are going to be walking into £40k+ jobs?
And at the end of the day, if you cut their money, they are still going to be disabled and struggle even more, meaning their health will worsen and they end up on benefits again.

Where have you gleaned your information from? Care to show exactly how this would correlate to people getting their benefits cut. I would be most interested to read your source of information.

We need to stop punishing business and people for doing well. We need people to work in skilled jobs and pay good taxes. We currently tax our highest earners too much, they are leaving or reducing hours. Since the budget, many jobs have gone. Many of these are high paying - high tax jobs. Many are also small jobs which are often taken by women and the disabled workforce. These opportunities are now gone. Taxing jobs and putting business off employing is crazy. Profit is not a dirty word. We need business here and to feel like the UK is worth basing themselves in. Plenty of other countries with more incentive to be successful.

People have to understand that success isn’t bad. You can’t just keep taxing and taking more and more. People then think - why bother? This now means there is less spending for state. The essential jobs don’t pay the bills. You need a functioning private sector for that. Destroying it with excessive tax now leads to the situation we are in now. Not enough people to pay for the state.

What do you mean they aren’t “free”. He doesn’t pay a penny for it.

I think this is right. I have disabilities myself. Most disabled people can do some sort of work. We need help to get people into work much more than just giving them money to keep them out the workforce

If we suspend belief and go along with the fiction that all ESA recipients can be processed into taxpayers - I would ask the government where are the jobs ?

Seriously. Which proportion on here do you think tick those boxes you have assigned them to. So much more complex than that which is why it's useful and productive to debate on here.

We just don't have sufficient enough facts imo to take a firm unwavering position on immigration one way or the other.

For example, I see how we need immigration to survive, to prop up the services we need such as the NHS. I see immigration values all of us. I also see there will be groups not contributing and requiring ' services ' and they will cost. How does that compare to other ' drains'. I don't know because I don't have the stats. Are we given reliable stats we can trust? So as you see no one really sits comfortably on one side if pressed enough on the subject.

I tell you what I do know, that again, no one cares a dot to debate the grifters I continually refer to ( the Royals). No one is interested in vitriol towards this group or analysing their drain on your taxes. Why is this.

I obviously need therapy for my obsession with the Royal Family 😆.

Rather than trying to shaft those who are disabled, just give every citizen a small benefit then no one can get up in arms about it. Everyone being treated equally.

So, once the disabled are in absolute poverty, who is next?

But do we know this? Do we know they really can. I absolutely agree there will be people who can. Why do those who can, not. If we could trust a system that didn't go for the genuinely vulnerable, we'd all support this. We'd support it if we knew the support was there to accommodate those who can. It isn't in many cases. No easy solutions.

Do you not have to pay car tax or insurance? Or fuel for it?? I had no idea it was that free.

Everyone. That’s what happens when you tax so heavily that the higher earners start changing their behaviour and think why bother. Then the private sector jobs market is decimated because of huge tax rises.

After all the other groups the public sector

A lot of people with disabilities will be capable of doing some sort of work, but where is this work? Which employer is going to hire them?

She does need extra care though and that is exactly my point!

Yet it is the genuinely ill and disabled who will suffer from any sweeping changes made. How do you prove the genuine from those you claim are not?

It's very noticeable on the tube where "customer incidents" and "trespassers" (euphemisms for suicide attempts) are now happening daily. Some employees are obviously very distressed themselves and nearly shrieking "stand back, stand behind the yellow line!!!" in a very disturbing manner. They are clearly scared "incidents" may happen in their presence.

I tell you what I do know, that again, no one cares a dot to debate the grifters I continually refer to ( the Royals). No one is interested in vitriol towards this group or analysing their drain on your taxes. Why is this.

Because the majority of the population see an attack on the RF, as an attack on the Country, and maybe themselves. They have been conditioned to look up to these people, and even if they were to deny it, see these people as being somehow better than them, and somehow deserving of all their wealth, and whatever else they have greedily amassed for themselves. People have been conditioned to punch down, not up, unfortunately. The film, The Platform, is well worth watching, if you have not already seen it. Anyhoo back to the thread...

I used to be in a category where I just met the threshold to pay high tax and it pissed me off so much. Because I still couldn't easily afford to buy a home and more.

But , is there not a group, the significantly wealthy who aren't those in the group like myself ( when I was) who really can pay more tax and absolutely should.

Exactly. Genuinely ill are unable to fight the system. But who cares.

Yeah. The issue is they tried that with the non-doms. RR is now having to back track because of the amount of tax we are losing. Wealth is mobile so they upped and left.

Thankyou. You have answered this perfectly because this is exactly what I believe to be true. This is why no one is addressing it when I raise it again and again 😆. Apart from a rare few of us.

It goes back to the point that the sick and disabled and even the poor are ' them ' and if I don't have to see ' them' then it's kind of ok if they just go away and die because I don't like ' them ' and I don't want to ever be like ' them '.

That's the truth and people will convince themselves of anything to make that fit in a socially acceptable way.

. I specifically said the CAR was free. I didn’t say anything else was.

And I have no idea how you legislate to stop that.