New Dubai and - deeply uncomfortable

[UnderTheStairs51]

There seems to be a new ad promoting Dubai as a holiday destination.

The one that starts and ends with 'swim first'.

I have been sad enough to pause it and hands are bare of rings walking through the market so no indication they are a married couple.

You'd run a risk to behave in the way shown on a public beach surely. They are not in swimming gear so what's the implication here?

I do think people should understand local rules when they visit other places but this seems to send out a message completely at odds with this.

Just me?

Autocorrect replaced Ad with and in the title!

Can you post a link to the ad? It’s hard to understand what you’re saying.

It's a TV ad for visit Dubai. Been on about every ad break I've seen tonight but I don't have a link.

I can't see it on you tube yet to share..

It's a TV ad for visit Dubai

Yes, it's a TV ad, the whole and only point of which is to make it look appealing. If you have a big enough problem with it to provoke kvetching to the internet then contact the ASA, not Mumsnet.

It would be dark day before you got me in that back hole of hell.

You can and will be arrested for any ridiculous reason they chose fit.

I don’t really understand what you’re saying. I always see so much bashing of Dubai on here, but it’s not like how it’s portrayed on mumsnet. I lived there for a few years while teaching, and it is the safest place I’ve ever lived - I’ve lived in several
countries. I don’t live in the UK so haven’t seen the ad, but exactly what behaviours is the ad showing which would “run the risk”? Because I never wore my wedding ring when I lived there (I still don’t), and despite frolicking around on the beach and by the pool in a bikini and holding hands/kissing my husband in public, nobody batted an eyelid. Should have I been chucked in jail or beheaded or something??

Mmmmm, I didn't notice the lack of rings when I saw that ad. But I did comment that I hoped the couple were married. Although holding hands does seem to be 'allowed' . So maybe not disingenuous ?

No, you’d be fine.

Maybe you should try and learn a little about the reality of a place before you start making assumptions based on prejudice.

Wasn't some 18 year old kid just arrested for having sex with a 17 year old?
There was also the arrest of a woman who was gang raped.
Yes life is easier for rich expats but let's not kid yourself on what this easy life is build on and how easily it can slip away if you decide to become a citizen for example. Holidaying in Dubai isn't the same as holidaying in Spain

Wasn't some 18 year old kid just arrested for having sex with a 17 year old?

I may be wrong but wasn't he arrested because she was under the age of consent so it was Statutory Rape?

My goodness, so many folk queuing up to share their zoomed-in, tiny piece of knowledge about Dubai and the UAE so they can sound “in the know”.

As someone who has lived there , plenty of unmarried couples hold hands. They don’t fill the jails with these people as a result.

BUT yes - open public displays of affection are discouraged. And so like anything in life, if you take the risk of being too PDA, then you would risk uncovering that you weren’t married. Which isn’t a problem in itself, but it just helps makes you a target so that if an Emirati didn’t like the way you were behaving under the influence or whatever, then there’s an “arrestable reason” you’ve just gifted them.

It’s like drinking. You get all the scare stories from people who read the Mail, but in reality you can drink here in the right places. What you then have to be mindful of is how you comport yourself. If you drink and you get loud, you do PDA, you act as if it’s Bournemouth town centre, then you’ll likely find yourself in hot water. If only it was like this here sometimes.

So yeah what I don’t get is why @UnderTheStairs51 thinks we should all somehow have the answer to why an ad maker didn’t use the image of a married couple in their ad? I don’t see it as false advertising - you can go there unmarried but you just have to be realistic and respectful, something that sadly many Brits find hard even in our own country.

He was arrested because despite them both being from the UK and there on holiday, and over the age of consent here...

Her mother reported him when she got home, and the boy and his family were still in Dubai.

They decriminalized sex outside of marriage 5 years ago: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/07/united-arab-emirates-to-relax-islamic-laws-on-personal-freedoms
and before that it wasn’t really enforced (apart from with locals). The people who got in trouble were mostly tourists who did things like having sex on public beaches.
Although a PP is right that it did sometimes lead to problems with rape cases where the victim wasn’t married to the attacker.

The case with the teenage boy was because the girl was beneath the age of consent (which is 18) making it a rape case. If she’d been 18 there wouldn’t have been an issue.
Just like if an adult tourist in the UK had sex with an underage girl and her parents made a complaint.

There are loads of things that you can be critical about when it comes to the UAE, but this isn’t one of them.

I have lived in the Gulf area including Dubai for many years as a single woman in the 80s and returned in the 90s with my family for DHs job. The reaction from people is astounding. Can you wear short skirts? can you show your arms? are you not afraid of being beheaded for holding hands and kissing in public? Even after explaining that I have never felt unsafe and can wear what I like etc. people will say oh I could never go there. Prejudice was already there and frequently cemented by the Daily Mail.

Are women allowed to swim naked? I don't know because I have never been but that's what the advert is suggesting.

Is the afvert actually showing naked people on a beach? I doubt that, but I haven't seen it, would be good if someone linked it.

And yes, people can walk together and hold hands without rings on. You can even touch the other sex as ling as you are not inappropriate. We normally did. It's called spending control in spice souks and fish markets😂

What has being from the UK or the British age of consent got to do with it?

I think there is a morality question on visiting many many countries who do not pass basic benchmark tests on democracy, human rights, equality and civil liberties. However the list is long and most of the world. The privileges and progress we have in Western Europe are the outlier not the norm in this big world of ours. Most of the Middle East, Africa, Asia and central and South America are going to fail a lot of standards. We are probably close to knocking out parts of central and North America including the US.

Getting sniffy about one country because of its religion and culture but not others because of romantic or nostalgic notions is hypocritical. Plus all the western progress and rights are barely 100 years old.

For any traveler it is important to be aware that most countries don’t have civil liberties. The police and the courts won’t follow any form of due process, natural justice or fairness. Once they have decided you have done something wrong you are going to be punished. This can result in the country being totally lawless and corrupt or controlled and “safe”. It is very easy to make a country “safe” by giving the police and courts unlimited powers and by curtailing a lot of liberties. But that safety comes at a price and is usually only experienced by the privileged.

I think your beliefs of what life is like in Dubai, especially as a tourist are misguided. It’s definitely not Benidorm and if you’re dry humping your boyfriend on the beach you might have an issue, but you’re not getting locked up for holding his hand.

This is how I feel. Nothing would entice me to go there.

People saying they’ve lived out there and had no problems are missing the point, surely?!

As a PP conceded, if you upset someone, there are lots of everyday things (which are fine in the west) that can be used to arrest you in Dubai and other ME countries. So it’s not just a case of acting reasonably, you really do need to understand and respect the culture or else you’re putting yourself at risk. It won’t just be a slap in the wrist if you forget and get something wrong.

Swearing in general or rude gestures - even messing around to family/friends - well, that’s potentially two years in jail.

Swear when talking about a public sector worker, and you’ll also be chucked in jail.

Do anything that might be considered to “damage the prestige” of the President and it’s a minimum of 15 years in jail. And that includes any social media posts that are even faintly disparaging about Dubai.

And it’s easy enough for someone to allege that you’ve said something. And even if there’s no proof, you could be in jail while they investigate, which could be months.

Plenty of people go to Dubai and and have a great time, no problems. And that’s fine - until it’s not.

Human rights organisations don’t just make up this stuff for a laugh. Muslim countries have different cultural standards and that’s fine. But UAE takes a punitive approach and isn’t particularly interested in fair trials.

The Independent wrote an interesting piece on Dubai a while ago and said that while many things were commonplace now, it didn’t mean they weren’t still illegal. This means that at any given point you could be pulled up for the misdemeanours, even though many others could be doing exactly the same thing! It’s luck of the draw and quite honestly, fuck that.

If you haven't lived there or been there then you opinion of what Dubai isnt that valuable. It's like asking someone what Paris is like of they haven't been to France - pretty pointless and based on inaccurate generalisations eg don't they all sell onions in Paris and wear black and white stripe t shirts.

I feel safer in Dubai than the UK and have seen people holding hands and more in public, I also know plenty of gay people who live here without fear and who have no plans to return to the UK.

Are women allowed to swim naked? I don't know because I have never been but that's what the advert is suggesting.

I haven't seen the ad in question, they show full nudity in a random tourism ad on TV?

I think we have a wider problem than tv adverts. I have taught citizenship in schools. Most children are completely unaware of the advantages they enjoy living in a country that has the rule of law.
And judging by the way the English electorate vote happily for right wing parties like "reform" and the popularity of Alexander "Boris" Johnson, we have the same problem with adults. And voters in other countries display the same worrying lack of interest in defending their democracies.
I fear many people literally have to live through the consequences of the right having power before they see the problems. Dubai is just an example.

You mean the guy who raped a girl as she was under aged? There were also a bunch of other implications. I hate to say it but he kinda deserved it as it was a literal fuck around and find out moment for him.