Page 3 | New Dubai and - deeply uncomfortable

UnderTheStairs51 · 2025-01-31T23:58:34+00:00

There seems to be a new ad promoting Dubai as a holiday destination. The one that starts and ends with 'swim first'. I have been sad enough to pause it and hands are bare of rings walking through the market so no indication they are a married couple. You'd run a risk to behave in the way shown on a public beach surely. They are not in swimming gear so what's the implication here? I do think people should understand local rules when they visit other places but this seems to send out a message completely at odds with this. Just me?

ChampagneLassie · 01/02/2025 08:24

A former colleague of mine was living and working there. He had a house party. Neighbours called police about music and suggested other improper activities might be happening. Police found an unmarried couple having sex in one of the bedrooms. The couple and my colleague were all arrested. My colleague spent 2 weeks in prison, and was only released at that point as his employer paid someone off

PotaytoPotahhto · 01/02/2025 08:29

Ah let the Dubai bashing (re) commence. Favourite MN pastime

Yes it’s really strange how obsessed MNers are with Dubai…

Coolasfeck · 01/02/2025 08:30

LondonPapa · 01/02/2025 07:36

You mean the guy who raped a girl as she was under aged? There were also a bunch of other implications. I hate to say it but he kinda deserved it as it was a literal fuck around and find out moment for him.

Show quote history

He didn’t rape her. Her vindictive mother disapproved of their holiday romance so tipped off the police when her child was safely back in the UK. Hopefully karma comes for the mother quickly.

It was this case and the guy who was jailed for having traces of cannabis on the bottom of his shoe that cemented my decision to never visit that country.

You can be sentenced to a year in jail if they discover you’ve sworn on WhatsApp! So I could fall out with someone and they could tell the police to check my phone and I could be jailed. Fuck that.

I’m not reading an encyclopaedia of rules before I go on holiday. There are many beautiful places in the world.

GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER · 01/02/2025 08:35

Beeloux · 01/02/2025 08:06

I lived in UAE for years and briefly Oman. I found UAE it to be a misogynistic and hypocritical country where it was one rule for locals and one rule for everyone else.

DV is not taken seriously at all, marital rape is legal, children can be travel banned, racism is rife and maids as well as construction workers are often treated horrendously. You just need to walk through areas like Deira and Karama.

One thing that stood out for me is how superficial it is. For CVs, you have to include a photo of yourself and the airline I used to work for would regularly weigh us and do image and uniform inspections before flights. They would put crew on weight management programmes and ground them until they lost the weight. If they didn’t they would be sacked.

UK airlines have also put cabin crew on the ‘fat list’. A friend of mine was once one such.

Cremeeggtime · 01/02/2025 08:39

PotaytoPotahhto · 01/02/2025 08:29

Ah let the Dubai bashing (re) commence. Favourite MN pastime

Yes it’s really strange how obsessed MNers are with Dubai…

Maybe because they advertise on mumsnet..?

GreylingsSkin · 01/02/2025 08:41

kattaduck · 01/02/2025 02:24

Wasn't some 18 year old kid just arrested for having sex with a 17 year old?
There was also the arrest of a woman who was gang raped.
Yes life is easier for rich expats but let's not kid yourself on what this easy life is build on and how easily it can slip away if you decide to become a citizen for example. Holidaying in Dubai isn't the same as holidaying in Spain

Show quote history

Exactly. I wouldn’t even stopover at Dubai airport for a transfer. No thanks.

SlugoftheLimberlost · 01/02/2025 08:41

colinthedogfromaccounts · 01/02/2025 07:40

Not been? Don't comment.

Having been to all the Emirates, spent time in the cities and the desert, I can confidently say swimming in a bikini and holding hands is not an issue.

What a lot of Western women (I am one), cannot comprehend is the intrinsically matriarchal basis of Muslim culture. Women generally don't feel downtrodden because they are very much in control of their choices. They WANT to wear hijab, they practice Islamic religious and cultural norms FOR THEMSELVES. I find it a complete paradox that Western Women think "oh shame" - when Muslim women feel exactly the same way. Just because it is different does not make it wrong.

My actual experience of the region is one of rich cultural heritage, amazing food, incredible scenery and most importantly respect and fundamental generosity shown to me, without fail by both Emirati men and women. I found the same in Oman.

I never ONCE felt unsafe, compromised or anything like that. I did leave with a respect and greater understanding of another culture - which does not ask for Western judgement.

I CAN comment despite never having been there. I haven't been to Ghana but can comment on FGM there. I've never been to the US but can comment on the changes to abortion law or Americans' attitudes to guns. It doesn't mean I don't appreciate the positives about those countries but I can take part in a discussion on the negatives. You don't get to shut me down.

Yes, some posters are saying that they lived there and were fine but were they living the same life as the locals? I know someone who lived there and said there were very different standards for her and her colleagues compared to ordinary locals because of the nature of her job. She also mixed with very wealthy locals who flouted the laws with impunity whilst low income locals, particularly women, were treated very bady for any slight infringement.

GretchenWienersHair · 01/02/2025 08:42

LondonPapa · 01/02/2025 07:36

You mean the guy who raped a girl as she was under aged? There were also a bunch of other implications. I hate to say it but he kinda deserved it as it was a literal fuck around and find out moment for him.

Show quote history

What were the “bunch of other implications”?

Notjustabrunette · 01/02/2025 08:45

I haven’t seen the ad, so only going on your description.
One of your main concerns was the lack of wedding rings. If you read up on local law, you will find that unmarried couples are allowed to live together or share hotel rooms. This has been the law for a number of years now.

raralalala · 01/02/2025 08:45

most people who go there seem to just want a glamorous location (for insta) with hot weather and they can ignore the human rights abuses and foundation of exploitation. I'd struggle to separate the two so won't ever go there.

GretchenWienersHair · 01/02/2025 08:48

Notjustabrunette · 01/02/2025 08:45

I haven’t seen the ad, so only going on your description.
One of your main concerns was the lack of wedding rings. If you read up on local law, you will find that unmarried couples are allowed to live together or share hotel rooms. This has been the law for a number of years now.

I don’t think it was just the lack of vows, it sounds like it was the implication of an unmarried couple frolicking after a party.

Marine30 · 01/02/2025 08:48

LemonTT · 01/02/2025 06:13

I think there is a morality question on visiting many many countries who do not pass basic benchmark tests on democracy, human rights, equality and civil liberties. However the list is long and most of the world. The privileges and progress we have in Western Europe are the outlier not the norm in this big world of ours. Most of the Middle East, Africa, Asia and central and South America are going to fail a lot of standards. We are probably close to knocking out parts of central and North America including the US.

Getting sniffy about one country because of its religion and culture but not others because of romantic or nostalgic notions is hypocritical. Plus all the western progress and rights are barely 100 years old.

For any traveler it is important to be aware that most countries don’t have civil liberties. The police and the courts won’t follow any form of due process, natural justice or fairness. Once they have decided you have done something wrong you are going to be punished. This can result in the country being totally lawless and corrupt or controlled and “safe”. It is very easy to make a country “safe” by giving the police and courts unlimited powers and by curtailing a lot of liberties. But that safety comes at a price and is usually only experienced by the privileged.

Great post well said.

EvelynSalt · 01/02/2025 08:52

colinthedogfromaccounts · 01/02/2025 07:40

Not been? Don't comment.

Having been to all the Emirates, spent time in the cities and the desert, I can confidently say swimming in a bikini and holding hands is not an issue.

What a lot of Western women (I am one), cannot comprehend is the intrinsically matriarchal basis of Muslim culture. Women generally don't feel downtrodden because they are very much in control of their choices. They WANT to wear hijab, they practice Islamic religious and cultural norms FOR THEMSELVES. I find it a complete paradox that Western Women think "oh shame" - when Muslim women feel exactly the same way. Just because it is different does not make it wrong.

My actual experience of the region is one of rich cultural heritage, amazing food, incredible scenery and most importantly respect and fundamental generosity shown to me, without fail by both Emirati men and women. I found the same in Oman.

I never ONCE felt unsafe, compromised or anything like that. I did leave with a respect and greater understanding of another culture - which does not ask for Western judgement.

I won't go into why I'm qualified to comment other than to say I spent a long time across various Emirates and lived within the culture. The trope of "it's the woman's choice" was, in my experience and observation, false and was trotted out by men to persuade me that I should fully accept and adhere to their views.

In my personal experience, males exerting religiously justified control over women was commonplace. This included physical punishment of wives by husbands, complete removal of custody rights from mothers in case of divorce, and in my personal experience making divorce initiated by the woman impossible.

So yeah, women might choose which abaya or hijab to wear but, beyond that, it's not accurate to suggest women legally or culturally have equal footing when trouble arises.

Glad to have got out, won't ever go back.

And re the TV ad yes it's a contradiction because if you upset the wrong person with your behaviour, you could be in hot water. But it's nothing new, Dubai has been selling an image for a long time which most people are aware isn't fully representative of the place.

mrsconradfisher · 01/02/2025 08:52

Good grief, have you actually been to Dubai? You are not going to get hounded by the police for walking round without rings on or for being on a beach. Stop spreading misinformation.
I have been countless times, took my rings off as my fingers swelled up with the heat and held hands with my husband (although nothing to tell he was my husband without rings on). Honestly it is the friendliest and safest place I have ever been. The only time I ever felt slightly worried was when my then 2 year old spilled an entire pack of skittles all over a metro carriage. You aren’t supposed to eat on there but I was trying to keep him quiet! The conductor helped us to pick them up and then spent about 15 minutes playing with him and teaching our older son some Arabic (he wanted to know what the metro announcements meant).

Beeloux · 01/02/2025 08:58

Also had middle aged local (probably married) men walk up to me and my friends in the mall (we were all 21) asking to take us out for the night. We were conservatory dressed and of course didn’t accept.
I knew of one woman who used to go with local men in exchange for expensive jewellery. Prostitution is rife over there.

Notgoodatpoetrybutgreatatlit · 01/02/2025 08:58

@ThatShyRoseViper
A fair point I don't know enough about how the Welsh and Northern Irish voters have voted to comment. Both countries are impacted by their own nationalist parties who are not right wing in the way reform are.
I do know a little about Scottish politics and the Scottish electorate vote centre and leftwards of the English. Nigel Farage was memorably warned by police in Edinburgh not to come back as they didn't think they could guarantee his safety as his views angered so many Scottish people.
That's why I specified English voters.

weareallqueens · 01/02/2025 08:59

What were the “bunch of other implications”?

@GretchenWienersHair They were made up. There wasn't any other implication never mind 'a bunch'.

Keep defending Dubai if you want, folks. The human rights abuses involved in building the lovely hotels and shopping malls and the environmental destruction created by all these swimming polls in a desert, would put me off even if it wasn't for the judgmental double standards regarding morality.

Flustration · 01/02/2025 09:00

Notgoodatpoetrybutgreatatlit · 01/02/2025 07:24

I think we have a wider problem than tv adverts. I have taught citizenship in schools. Most children are completely unaware of the advantages they enjoy living in a country that has the rule of law.
And judging by the way the English electorate vote happily for right wing parties like "reform" and the popularity of Alexander "Boris" Johnson, we have the same problem with adults. And voters in other countries display the same worrying lack of interest in defending their democracies.
I fear many people literally have to live through the consequences of the right having power before they see the problems. Dubai is just an example.

I completely agree we have a wider problem and it's been worrying me for a while. The examples you give are from the right, but I think it's bigger than a simple left/right issue (I can think of many examples of similar thinking from the left).

I don't know if it's a case of people being happy to trade one type of freedom for another, or whether people who have enjoyed living in a democracy simply cannot wrap their heads around what a loss of those freedoms will mean.

Democracy is far from perfect and actually not well suited to some social and economic conditions, but to see it dismissed so casually is worrying.

CranfordScones · 01/02/2025 09:00

I'd love to know how all the influencers who portray themselves as being so socially engaged manage to square their conscience with Dubai visits.

MILLYmo0se · 01/02/2025 09:00

I would feel very on edge so don't think I'd ever travel there, certainly wouldn't live there. Everything is fine until it isn't, it would just take someone taking a dislike to me to have me arrested for something minor. I couldn't risk living there in a relationship for fear I'd be stopped if I wanted to leave, yes I'm sure many women do just get on a plane successfully but even Western men living there use the law to control their woman if they are the type
www.irishlegal.com/articles/irish-woman-being-prosecuted-in-dubai-for-attempted-suicide

Lindatowin · 01/02/2025 09:03

I saw it last night and thought she was saying ‘slim fast’ I was quite confused when I saw it was an advert for Dubai!

AnonymousBleep · 01/02/2025 09:03

ToothHurtyAppointment · 01/02/2025 01:26

I don’t really understand what you’re saying. I always see so much bashing of Dubai on here, but it’s not like how it’s portrayed on mumsnet. I lived there for a few years while teaching, and it is the safest place I’ve ever lived - I’ve lived in several
countries. I don’t live in the UK so haven’t seen the ad, but exactly what behaviours is the ad showing which would “run the risk”? Because I never wore my wedding ring when I lived there (I still don’t), and despite frolicking around on the beach and by the pool in a bikini and holding hands/kissing my husband in public, nobody batted an eyelid. Should have I been chucked in jail or beheaded or something??

Really? I got told off for kissing a boyfriend in public. It was in a cafe and the cafe owner said he'd throw me out if I didn't stop immediately as he could get into trouble too.

I lived in Dubai for a year in the mid 2000s. It may have changed since then, but it's built on slavery and all the essential services (and dangerous building work in 50 degree heat) is done by an abused underclass of economic migrants who are paid next to nothing and if, for example, they are raped, they are simply deported back to where they came from. It's safe if you're a rich white person though, granted.

Dearg · 01/02/2025 09:05

Apologies if this has been said before, but not all cultures wear rings to indicate marriage. Not all who do, wear them on their left hand. Some of us here, who have been married for 40 years don’t wear rings because they irritate our sensitive skin.

Cannot imagine naked swimming in Dubai except in a very private pool, but I find the absence of wedding rings being mentioned as rather narrow minded.

EasyTouch · 01/02/2025 09:14

WiddlinDiddlin · 01/02/2025 04:47

He was arrested because despite them both being from the UK and there on holiday, and over the age of consent here...

Her mother reported him when she got home, and the boy and his family were still in Dubai.

Show quote history

You are being disingenuous.
He was ultimately arrested, charged and imprisoned because HE and only HE broke the law regarding sexual consent and age in Dubai.
Just like the age of consent in California is 18.
Hence why Tyga who was then dating a 17 year old Kylie Jenner ( with the knowledge of her parents) took her on holiday to Paris , presumably to have legally consensual sexual relations.
You are acting as if being accused of a crime is actually worse than perpetrating one.

Mirabai · 01/02/2025 09:17

Ime people who have lived in Dubai voluntarily are often either oblivious or turn a blind eye to the social, racial and gender inequalities. To be conscious of them daily it would make it hard to enjoy living there.