New Dubai and - deeply uncomfortable

[UnderTheStairs51]

There seems to be a new ad promoting Dubai as a holiday destination.

The one that starts and ends with 'swim first'.

I have been sad enough to pause it and hands are bare of rings walking through the market so no indication they are a married couple.

You'd run a risk to behave in the way shown on a public beach surely. They are not in swimming gear so what's the implication here?

I do think people should understand local rules when they visit other places but this seems to send out a message completely at odds with this.

Just me?

I don't wear a wedding ring.

But as a visual symbol in advertising or television aimed at a western audience it remains the primary way of conveying relationship status.

There is a special place reserved in hell for tourists who go to Dubai.

LondonPapa · Today 07:36
You mean the guy who raped a girl as she was under aged? There were also a bunch of other implications. I hate to say it but he kinda deserved it as it was a literal fuck around and find out moment for him.

He did not rape a girl. It was consensual sex between an 18 and nearly 18 year old. Her cowardly mother waited to report him until her daughter was out of the country, presumably because her daughter could have been arrested too.

Would she also have “kinda deserved” a prison sentence?

And if it’s a choice, it’s not enslavement. I am talking about actual enslaved people. The UAE has an abysmal human rights record. At this point, it’s just a holiday destination for the non-U who want to feel wealthier than they are.

At this point, it’s just a holiday destination for the non-U who want to feel wealthier than they are.

It's a bit ironic pointing a finger at Dubai while being a vicious snob.

Im guessing you were not gay when you worked over there?

It's not that though the Ad shows a Dubai that's liberal and easy going, a portrayal of romantic interactions on a beach, out and about, it is just confusing as it isn't Spain is it!

Well some argue, I had a teacher that argued that theft was just and fair if society was set up in a way that was going to unequally distribute resources and this was after they were burgled! I'm not agreeing with them on that but I wonder why you think the average Brit would want strict governance where punishment was disproportionate to the crime?

I wonder why you think the average Brit would want strict governance where punishment was disproportionate to the crime?

I think the average Brit would settle for there just being any punishment at all for property crimes right now.

But why would they need to convey a couple is married?

Because these liberal, romantic gestures in public are not acceptable in a conservative society as well you probably know.

That's an observation about seemingly no justice arising from a criminal act, it does not follow that people want to therefore adopt this strict rule of law. Of course, some on the extreme ends of political spectrum may but they aren't common that is why these extreme punishments are more headline news in the UK as we are shocked by such Draconian measures.

As said, didn't see advert (no one seems to be able to find it online) but holding hands and going for a swim (NOT naked) as unwed couple is fine. They can even live together.
Absolutely no bearing on this if they are married or not really. Friends and I were hanging out on beaches and desert all the time. Couples married, non married, various nationalities, holding hands for walk, swimming.

I’m sure they miss your presence there …

I lived in Qatar and travelled to Dubai regularly, no amount of money would drag me back to those countries.

The veneer is very very thin.

The only thing I liked out there were the female only spas.

Well why don't you Google it?

Very strange and confusing as the Foreign office list stuff you shouldn't do there and one is holding hands in public. Google that as well.

I think also because the reality is, in a lot of countries where you don't have those civil rights it is basically more or less fine for lots of people most of the time. e.g., Russia was been sliding down into dictatorship for a long time. But you could still visit Russia and have a nice time, lots of people in the big cities were having a great time so it all looks great. Until you dig below the surface a little and see the massive poverty in the sticks/the corruption. But hey, countries like the UK and US have poverty too. And then suddenly Russia is in a war that is killing 10000s of young men but... meh, keep your head down.
Afghanistan is led by a hardline religious right who are discussing whether women should be allowed near windows. But there are lots of (male) western influencers videoing themselves visiting the country and talking about how friendly and safe it all is for them. Therefore the Taliban are misunderstood. Rory Stuart also thinks Afghanistan is safer (for him, a posh British man) now than it was before so it's good. It's not safe for women with medical issues who can't see a doctor, or girls being sold to older men, or women who previously fled DV being returned to those husbands, or children in households where the mother was the breadwinner who are now starving etc etc. But it is safer for Rory.

Everyone knows the poem "first they came for..." but the problem is, sometimes they come for the "other" and then they DON'T come for you. At least for a long time. So its much easier for people to tell themselves its OK. And much harder to defend liberal democratic values when in the short term liberal democratic countries have a lot of issues/the advantages aren't immediately obvious. The idea that everyone is of equal worth and should have equal rights is a nice thing to think but there have been so many failures to put that into practice, its easy for regimes which don't even pretend to think that to look better.

Dubai and its treatment of some migrant workers etc compared to its image is a part of that. But I have visited there and it is a lovely place to live/work in if you are a well paid Westerner. But of course you can't vote, you don't have many civil rights if shit goes wrong. Most of the time that doesn't matter though - it doesn't feel like an authoritarian hell hole. And Dubai is Dubai and always will be. But we need to find a way to defend "traditional British values" within Britain (and I don't mean in a Nigel Farage/Elon Musk kind of way) despite the fact Britain has done some awful things.

I also tried to google the ad obviously.

Fcdo does not list holding hands as not to do. UAE's own website states holding hands is acceptable.

I find there is a lot of "This is nice, aargh this is terrible" juxtapositions.

e.g. super friendly cats everywhere, but the authorities just intermittently round them all up and kill them all rather than spay/try to find homes (one of my friends cats got killed in one of these sweeps even though she had a collar). When this happens in other countries there is public outrage but nobody cares enough to even complain. Also my (Muslim) friend pointed out its deeply unislamic to do that.
Racism/exceptionally poor treatment of some migrant workers below the surface but if you are an expat from the UK its fine so long as you don't get into a dispute with a local because the authorities will always side with them. But most of the time that doesn't matter.

It doesn't feel like a theocracy. Its oddly soulless. But the weather is fantastic.

Well some argue, I had a teacher that argued that theft was just and fair if society was set up in a way that was going to unequally distribute resources and this was after they were burgled.

Does the teacher not realise that few, if any, thieves are Robin Hood figures who will distribute their ill-gotten gains to the less well off?

Dubai doesn't feel like a Muslim country though. They are not very nice to a lot of Muslims if they are poor/come from another country etc. They are much crueler to animals than in Muslim majority countries like Morroco, Turkey etc despite having the money not to be. While all religions have faults and there are parts of the Koran that are not great, I don't even think the main problems (I have with) Dubai come from Islam.

Best thing to do about the number of strays would be to ban sale of pets really in such a transient place. People get pet, then have to move and just... Leave them. We had cases of dogs being dropped off near us by random cars. People are absolutely stupid sometimes.

They are mostly Arabian Maus who have been there for about 1000 years apparently. A lot of them live as street cats but they are the opposite of feral - often very easy to adopt because they are descended (allegedly) from the first cats to be domesticated. Most of the expats with pet cats there didn't bring them into the country but had a local cat decide they were their humans now. I can understand going to mass euthanasia where other options (spaying etc) hadn't worked. But it is just the automatic choice.

Obviously there are much worse things than cats being put down. But it was just an example of really jarring behavior and completely different to other Muslim majority countries like Turkey, Morrocco etc I visited where there are a lot of problems/economic inequality but you also see locals being incredibly kind to animals.

People go to Florida and other US destinations happy enough dont they?

The US is virtually a rich third world country to my mind.

Sadly we had lots of brought in breeds around alongside Arabian Mau. One of the OG's being THE boss. And very vocal about food. Shelters are permanently full here.
It's not usual people who brought pets from abroad who leave them.

I agree that mass euthanasia is upsetting choice.