Parents need to stop lying about term time holidays

[Ljcrow]

If parents want to take their kids out of school for a term time holiday because it's cheaper, I wish they wouldn't give the bullshit that it's an "educational experience". There's an article about this on the BBC today, but working in a school I've heard it all before. Can we not pretend that an all-inclusive to Lanzarote or similar is a rich cultural and educational experience?! If you want to take your kids our because it's cheaper that's up to you but don't try claim the moral high ground, no one's falling for it. (Fwiw I think holiday companies shouldn't be allowed to hike their prices up in school holidays, it's disgraceful, and as a parent myself I have no choice but to pay those inflated prices. It sucks.)

Oh yeah I think it would be brilliant if teachers were allowed take some annual leave during term time. Might keep some in the profession. Wholeheartedly endorse this.

And actually, while we're at it, let's make teachers' lives easier any way we can. Teachers in other countries aren't working the same hours that teachers in England are, and there doesn't seem to be any benefit to the children.

Yes, this.

Not everyone can have time in the school holidays off, more of my colleagues have school aged children than not, even shared evenly if they all took their holidays in school holidays we'd be running on half staff for their entire time.
We have restrictions on taking holidays in the school holidays and no one is allowed anything in December. It's not just teachers who have their holidays dictated to them.
And I'm in hospitality so it's our busiest time, I can just imagine the uproar if stuff people want to do and services they need were restricted or unavailable because half the staff were on holiday. Sorry we can't look after your elderly and vulnerable relative in August because all the staff with school aged children are on holiday.

Parents say it's educational (and in a fair few cases I'd think it probably is, maybe not just sitting around a pool in an all inclusive resort for a week) because they're being bloody squeezed every which way, from all angles and made to feel guilty whatever they do.

My DD had the once in a lifetime opportunity to meet family from a different country who visited for a restricted time during term time. I took her out of school for those 4 days because she'd likely never have the opportunity to spend time with them again and we went away for that time. A couple of those family members are now dead. That opportunity wouldn't ever happen again. But school said no to the request, fines weren't handed out that often back then, but I'd have paid one, because it was important, she wasn't just a little learner drone who exists to help the school keep Ofsted happy.

It played a part in shaping who she is, and we would have taken the work and I'd have caught her up had they allowed it. But they didn't, because it was unauthorised, so them having to spend time catching her up and the 'it disrupts the whole class' well that's down to their own policies.

My boss was more accommodating to the circumstances, and I'm an adult who gets paid to be there and me not being there caused more disruption than DD not being at school, than the school were.

And?! Ofsted isn’t exactly the most reliable. You are the one criticising their academic delivery. Or maybe their teaching is genuinely outstanding and there are reasons why your child has gaps when others don’t. Take it from the multitude of teachers on here, myself included, taking pupils out for a week is incredibly selfish towards the teachers and other pupils. Two things would have to happen to negate this. 1. We’d have to move to a more Spanish /German /Scandinavian attitude from government where the teacher is not held accountable for every single thing, where students have to take some responsibility for their own outcomes. 2. Parents would have to accept that they have to provide alternative provision if they want their child to catch up. Teachers then wouldn’t have a problem with it. Of course, ideally, government would look at banning airlines and travel companies from quadrupling their prices in the holidays or staggering holidays in different counties instead so there wasn’t a peak season in the first place.

I know each autistic child has different things they love and situations where they would not cope. I know of at least 7 autistic boys and one girl. All 8 would not cope with flying as they are restricted what they can do.

One of the boys, aged 6 or 7, loves emergency vehicles - aka Nee-Nahs. Has a collection of various vehicles, watches Fireman Sam - the original claymation version. Plus has blue flashing lights in his room.

But there's teachers on here all the time judging parents who take their kids away in term time. It's the judging that people are calling. Yeah the setup is stupid but that's not the teachers fault.

I’m absolutely sure that govt could pass a law that no holiday should cost more than a certain multiplier of what it costs the week before or after. If they wanted to.

So they’d be some expensive weeks in the middle of the holidays, but prices would have to even out.

But there’s never going to be an appetite for that as people without school aged children would be in uproar not to get their heavily discounted breaks.

You could home school.

On the flip side, you could see it as free government daycare where you have to abide by the contract as you would any daycare.

Presumably you don't want to spend that much time with your kids and want to have a free babysitter or you'd homeschool. Since you don't seem to value what teachers actually do or respect their work.

My friend spent 2 years in Australia with her kids, 3 in state Primary, early 2000s.

She was going to make a visit back to the UK to see family. She gathered her courage then spoke to the Head about taking the DC out of school for 2 weeks.

His reply was more or less 'Why are you asking me, they're your kids'....

It would be better if local authorities staggered the school holidays, so you don't have everybody trying to take time off at the same time

i took DD out of school early jan for a week abroad to celebrate my 40th birthday. The school ended up being closed for 2 days out the 5 because the car park was icy. She learnt to swim on that holiday, we went snorkelling and we also visited the pyramids in Egypt. Don’t tell me she would have learnt more in that week than with us on holiday. We still have to pay the fine.

No one would bother trying to pretend it’s educational if they weren’t subject to so much judgement for doing it.
I don’t pretend anything. I just tell the school it’s happening and our very reasonable Head says ‘have a lovely time’. I know that what happens after that isn’t down to her, it’s government policy. Authorised, unauthorised, makes no odds to me. As I said upthread, my eldest has just been offered 3 academic scholarships to selective independent schools, so it’s not done her any harm.
I can see why other people try and justify it as educational though.

Of course, ideally, government would look at banning airlines and travel companies from quadrupling their prices in the holidays or staggering holidays in different counties instead so there wasn’t a peak season in the first place.

That's a completely unrealistic idea so no, it would not be ideal for government to waste resources looking at it. The UK government has no jurisdiction over what businesses in other countries do, and cannot prevent the existence of peak season.

It's a stupid government rule. I think it's OK to lie to avoid high prices and a fine, if you want to.

Pretty sure politicians get away with all sorts of lies. A week off won't hurt your child's education.

Teachers should be allowed a holiday in term time. A week out the kids lives with a stand in teacher shouldn't be the end of anyones world.

I think the ' is education important or not' is an interesting outcome of COVID.

We are told every day in school counts. However children missed months of school in lockdowns and the subsequent chaos of bubbles bursting. Either a great injustice was down to a generation who deserve remedial opportunities, or actually it's possible to acquire an education whilst not being sat in a formal school setting each day.

Free? You know we pay for education through our taxes, right?

I don't lie, but I don't feel an ounce of guilt. My DC miss a week or so every other year to visit DH's home country. It's not easy to align everyone's schedules, the flights are long and expensive.
I sympathise with the teachers, and the additional workload of catching up x30. But ultimately, chronic underfunding isn't my fault, and my primary responsibility is to my own DC and what is best for them.

It's true that there are judgy teachers as much as anything else, and people have every right to criticise that, sure.

But that's not the only thing that gets slagged off. Threads on this issue regularly feature posters angry that school have fined them/threatened fines. I know school send out the letters and make the reports, but it's not really school. They certainly aren't all in support of it. DB is a governor and he absolutely despises the term time holiday fines because of the amount of shit it causes.

They should only fine you 60% of the cost as if the school was shut due to ice, your DD wouldn't be able to attend regardless.

I'm retired now, husband and I had low paying jobs working as countryside rangers for a local council. We took our kids camping in May and June round the UK every year until they were 15 or 16, 2 weeks at a time. We had night walks, sunrise swims, wildlife watching, fantastic.
They're both in their 30s now, one with a masters from a good uni the other running his own successful business. They both have lovely partners and children.
Education is not just about following rules and academic success when you're little. Emotional intelligence is the key.
So glad there weren't fines and extra pressure to navigate when ours were little. Spend time with your children when they're young, they'll always remember it.
School isn't everything. Feel very sorry for parents now navigating work, school rules etc. It can't be good for children either.

‘All inclusive to Lanzarote’. Seriously could you be more of a snob? I would argue that actually it is educational. Navigating the airport, catching a plane, travelling anywhere is a life experience for children. Of course it’s not the main reason parents take them but holidays abroad in the school holidays are around 6 grand for something semi- decent. Family life is pretty tough for a lot of people these days and it’s important to have a bit of fun as a family with the sun on your face. I’m a teacher and would never judge families who do this. I’m just jealous they can!

The trouble with term time holidays is when parents expect you to set work for their child to do whilst away. I’ve been asked to do this many times, and not once has it been done, so I’d refuse now. Also, I think the parents of child should be responsible to catch up on missed work themselves -it’s too disruptive to have to recap for the rest of the class. Again, this rarely happens. Sadly teachers are held accountable for exam results. I remember a child going to Turkey and missing his Spanish oral exam (the exam timetable had gone out months before). He got a D and I was held accountable as it lowered my A-C % by 3%!!

If parents are on here complaining about getting fined then they are obviously just stupid. They know they are risking a fine when they make rhe decision to take the kids out of school.

Yes, this is the elephant in the room.

The social contract on daily school attendance was actually not very long established by 2020. Couple of decades tops. And then school attendance was turned into something that was nice to have, but that could be interfered with if the reason was important enough. That was the lesson that stuck.

Combine that with a society that values travel, and term time holidays aren't going anywhere.

That's not a bad idea at all.