Parents need to stop lying about term time holidays

[Ljcrow]

If parents want to take their kids out of school for a term time holiday because it's cheaper, I wish they wouldn't give the bullshit that it's an "educational experience". There's an article about this on the BBC today, but working in a school I've heard it all before. Can we not pretend that an all-inclusive to Lanzarote or similar is a rich cultural and educational experience?! If you want to take your kids our because it's cheaper that's up to you but don't try claim the moral high ground, no one's falling for it. (Fwiw I think holiday companies shouldn't be allowed to hike their prices up in school holidays, it's disgraceful, and as a parent myself I have no choice but to pay those inflated prices. It sucks.)

Of course it's not the same thing.

But previously heads, at their discretion, could authorise leave. But then they had to evaluate the merit of what was happening and all sorts of bias creeps in. Is lanzarote educational but margate not?

Is family time only important if you are somewhere hot not at home.

Is it only OK to miss school if you are having outdoor, but not if you are watching TV.

How do you prove mum had a hangover and hadn't decided today was special family day to make a cake as family time is important.

They went with school is important, therefore you should be there for all but exceptional reasons.

I don't think it's a perfect system but I understand why it operates like this.

More than happy for a teacher to go on holiday during term time, as long as their (tax payer paid) salary is adjusted accordingly and a suitable alternative is found (again, because education is funded by the tax payer).

Then you’re in a rubbish school (not necessarily their fault). Not all schools have rubbish teaching and it’s an incredibly common and unreasonable assumption that the teachers will bring the kid up to speed later. It’s incredibly disruptive to everyone else.

I think it would be a good idea for school staff contracts to build in more flexibility, given that we're struggling to recruit and it's something that people clearly value in work now. Evidently we have to make the terms and conditions more attractive, because that's how job markets work. The ability to take time off during term could be part of that.

And even so, I can still see that this is a daft point because one lot are getting paid and the other aren't.

How does the autistic boy cope with airports and flying? I always fly out during school term time and its mental, even at 5am at East Midlands (guessing family in article flew from there as live in Leicestershire. Being in a metal tube for 5+ hours - including time from entering the plane to leaving would be traumatic for anyone on the autism spectrum.

My friends with autistic DC have never taken them abroad because they would not cope with the whole airports and flying. One of them goes to Devon - 250 miles from here. If her ADS has a meltdown, they pull into a lay-by, service station etc for a few mins until he calms down. One journey they had to stop 4 times. He's fine once he's there, probably has 1-2 meltdown episodes max. With a plane, you can't stop off somewhere.

Perhaps schools could investigate the educational value of the holidays by giving the children a test about the place they visited on their return.

I think teachers should be given some annual leave in term time. Some might use to to attend sports days or plays at their DCs schools; it’s sad that teachers have to miss those things for their own DC. Or they could go on holiday. I think I would reduce stress and therefore sickness and be better for everyone.

My DC have supply teachers a few times a week when their teachers are off sick or disappear for a day to attend training: everyone survives. Why not plan properly and book cover for them for a week?

It received an Outstanding Ofsted report less than a year ago.

Mine is fine with airports. Don't know why. Luck of the draw I suppose.

You're right. A week off school in term time is NOT going to wreck a child's education.....because the teacher will give up her lunch and break times to help the child catch up on what he / she has missed! 30 children in a class? That's a hell of a lot of missed lunch and break times for the teacher! So I'm watching this thread for all the mums who take their children out of school during term time who are telling us that they're going to pay for extra tuition for little Charlie to help him catch up on what he's missed while he's been on his 'culturally enriching trip! GRRRR!

I feel that what is really damaging here is the way the system forces behaviours, and a lack of honesty, that erodes the good relationship between schools and parents.

The honest situation is this: holidays are nice and they’re cheaper in term time. All absences mean lost learning, but the overall impact of this loss will depend on the child, the age, and the time of year.

We cannot, in any just society, have a scenario in which authorisation is dependent on ‘how well the child is doing’, nor on ‘educational value of the holiday’ (the fact remains that those whose access to holidays are most limited by financial hardship are often those whose children may find academic learning more difficult).

Allowing all families to have, say, 5 days over a year, with total transparency on both sides (ie fines only levied for misrepresentation of reason for absence) might be preferable.

I also think that all communication about holiday absence should be via a 3rd party - not the school. At present, schools are a ‘middle man’ presenting messages to parents while in fact told what to do by LAs and Ofsted, and this too is corrosive.

That’s how to deal with disability is it?

Simply force children to do what they can’t do?

I don’t think you’d ever have said something similar about a physical disability. Your comment just shows how ignorant people can still be about conditions like autism.

Sure, as long as the parents can access educational funding from the state for the holidays. And presumably the schools be funded to do this extra testing work also.

We took ours out for a month travelling in Thailand. Daughter did her geography gcse coursework while we were there and got an 9 for it. They both came back more mature and more considerate and with a real appreciation for how fortunate they are. On top of that, it was a fantastic bonding experience for us as a family.

I’m 100% sure they got more out of it than they would have got out of school.

I give no shits what you, or the school, think about my parenting.

We're in NI, we go away for a week in May every year and the school tell us to have a great time.

We spend a week swimming and eating ice-cream and come back and say yes it was lovely thank you.

No drama from anyone. The system in England bewilders me, and just seems to pitch families and schools against each other which is the last thing anyone needs.

This!
I'm really fed up of parents blaming schools and teachers for this issue. Like most policies that annoy parents, the DFE and the (previous) government have made the rules and schools have to follow them. Schools have no autonomy anymore and are held to account relentlessly for everything. We have a massive recruitment and retention issue in teaching and part of the problem is parents who repeatedly blame schools and criticise teachers unfairly. Parents can pretend all they like that it isn't disruptive taking holidays in term time but it absolutely is for the child and the class. It is incredibly rare that parents actually catch their children up - the usually expect the teacher to do it and that just isn't easy the way the curriculum is- yet that teacher will be blamed for the fact that child has gaps in their learning. If they miss key parts of a concept, then they struggle when they return and it affects the other children if the teacher is then taken up with that child when others need attention- especially given there is so little TA support now and so many with SEN. Usually teachers then have to try to catch the child up in lunchtimes etc when workload is already through the roof. On the very rare occasion a parent asks for the work- that creates additional workload as it will require instructions and adaptations given the child won't be there for the input. By all means fight the case for a term-time holiday but please be mindful that there absolutely is an impact. (Unless it is at the end of a term in some cases when things are winding down- but I find this is rare now as you are still desperately trying to finish topics as the curriculum is too hard and too full.)
I also don't buy the argument about it being like children being ill and missing school- that isn't a choice so it's not the same and usually a child misses one of two days when ill- not two weeks.

You know not all autistic children are the same, right? My autistic child absolutely loves airports/planes/flying, it’s his special interest. We flew out to Spain at 7pm over Christmas, incidentally from East Midlands airport. We were the last flight of the day, so the airport was dead. Special assistance meant no queue through security.

Person B gets lots of support from school & social services and no fine. That child suffers from a lost education and is not able to catch up. Persistent lateness and absence. No quality family time, stress from a crap family life.

The child of Person A has great attendance, and is not going to struggle catching up. Person A gets fined. Quality family time, less stress, bonding.

Where's the sense? Person B is causing more disruption for the teachers because they can't care effectively for their child.

But other countries seem to manage without these all-encompassing rules.

My family in Australia are consistently shocked at the approach in England. In a country where a quarter of people have at least one parent born somewhere else, they just wish you well.

And that's in a country where the weather isn't likely to be terrible for at least half of the scheduled school holidays.

Currently girding myself to let the schools know that we'll be taking the kids out two days early at Easter because we've got a major family event and they get limited time with my side of the family as it is. And I'm not going to spoil it by flying in the morning of and having everyone be scrappy and jet lagged.

This year our DD took her family to the canaries during term time.
They made friends from Portugal, Germany and Russia.
Didn't matter they couldn't speak each others language.
At the end of the holiday they all could say hello, goodbye and a few
other words.
In fact the German girl and one of my granddaughters have written
via email to each other.

Learning comes in all forms.

It is shit that schools get blamed for this, absolutely. That's another fault in the system. They're obliged to do the front facing work of this scheme, and afaik not given extra money for it either. Naturally, this pisses off and alienates some parents, and relationships are damaged.

My personal opinion is that there should be an allowance of a certain amount of days per year and then fines.

When I was growing up (England in the 1980s) you got an allowance of 10 days per academic year. I only remember one set of parents going against it - a lot of laughter when their son’s apparent bout of flu left him looking far healthier than he had before it - and it worked fine.

We need to move back to something sensible like this. But then the LEAs wouldn’t be able to collect all the lovely fines, would they?

I literally just came here to start a thread on this, yes a holiday is nice, and fun and perhaps the kids do learn something, but don’t pretend its ‘educational’ 🙄

None of this nonsense in Scotland. It is listed as unauthorised but nothing happens.
No one is taking their kids out of school for weeks and weeks on end and no one’s education is suffering because of it. Because there is no threat, few people take their kids out more than once or twice and even then, it’s last few days of term usually.

So why on earth they need to warn and fine in England is beyond me.

What's that got to do with you judging others for taking term time holidays? Calling out bullshit 🤣 ok.