Parents need to stop lying about term time holidays

[Ljcrow]

If parents want to take their kids out of school for a term time holiday because it's cheaper, I wish they wouldn't give the bullshit that it's an "educational experience". There's an article about this on the BBC today, but working in a school I've heard it all before. Can we not pretend that an all-inclusive to Lanzarote or similar is a rich cultural and educational experience?! If you want to take your kids our because it's cheaper that's up to you but don't try claim the moral high ground, no one's falling for it. (Fwiw I think holiday companies shouldn't be allowed to hike their prices up in school holidays, it's disgraceful, and as a parent myself I have no choice but to pay those inflated prices. It sucks.)

Ridiculous.

So you think schools should have more work to do as a result of this? Explain how it works - money goes to the school - school have staff at a loose end who can pick up these kids as support staff are just sitting around waiting for jobs to crop up! Then the teachers plan the support and prep it for no money and then the support staff who were just idling get paid extra to do it instead of drinking coffee?

Or is there another plan to make this work?

We wouldn't be talking 2 weeks! We'd be talking however long they wanted as that is what parents do! 3 weeks in Florida - crack on right before a break - no biggie! So who would be there with the kids? If the teacher is not there then there would be no one in with your kids. maybe the parents would have to take it in turns to do the extra. I mean if teachers have to work extra for nothing when parents take their kids out then parents work extra for nothing when the teachers take their kids out - fair?

As a teacher I could not care less. In fact my first thought when one of my class is on holiday for a week is 'Good! One less!

Drops that are entirely in keeping with the rest of the OECD. Smartphones probably play a large role.

Including England, despite our special holiday fines system.

https://edexec.co.uk/news-englands-students-face-academic-decline/

Totally agree. I took my kids out of school just before or after the February half term three years on the trot so we could afford to go skiing. (Stopped when exams were looming) I did this with the sole intention of teaching them that (once they got to their late teens/Ibiza clubbing with mates stage) there was another way they could enjoy a holiday - ie not drinking all week and burning themselves in the sun.
It worked spectacularly well, - they both ended up preferring a ski holiday with our large family/friendship group and are still doing it years later. They also achieved first/masters at Uni and are in excellent careers.

I didnt take my child away in term time, and my children are not of school age anymore. But thanks for your judgement.

A missed lesson in their subjects won't kill them. No need for drama.

Yep because they start school way below standard. Maybe if they were school ready on entry they would leave on track! Playing catch up from day 1 isn't ideal.

Interesting.

why do you think there is such a difference?

Well, silly old me with my QTS and 15 years teaching secondary including being a Head of Department and an old fashioned teaching Head of Year before they got rid of them, happens to disagree.

To use your own rather charming expression, wind your neck in. At the end of the day teachers are just that, teachers, not some sort of deity that both kids and parents must worship, and they certainly don't have any say in the trips I plan for my family. Now, does that clarify somewhat for you?

Wow…just wow!!!

So you'll know that 2 stars and a wish was very much a decade ago and that no mark marking has a greater impact on learning than a tick and flick! If you do not understand the aim of marking then surely that 15 years hasn't done much!

Nope it doesn't clarify as I am a teacher also so going back to Gove's era with the marking isn't ideal I mean if you are stuck in that era then crack on. One who knows how to give feedback to kids without just aimlessly ticking and flicking books as that doesn't have an impact on learning! Now by all means you can explain how you think a tick and flick has an impact on learning but I find that speaking with the child directly in lessons about their work has a greater impact than a tick on a page which does nothing to develop their skills. I give them advice on how to improve and a tick doesn't do that. Does that clarify it somewhat for you?

But it DOES matter when they come back & have missed ALL of the input on a particular topic. The teacher then has to do the next part of the lesson with the rest of the children, whilst yours is sitting there not knowing what was going on, THEN spend more time bringing that 1 child up to speed.
Sounds easy, but when you’ve got a class of 30, where - quite likely a 1/5th have some sort of additional need - and with very little - if any - other adults in the classroom, is not easy, trust me!

I am in a country where the head can give you permission extra leave. But I think it is a sliding scale, you all talk about 1 week… but after you get used to that, you might want to take three weeks because long haul flights are also pretty expensive during school holidays.

At our school a mum took her sen-kid out for a month, on a very educational trip no doubt. But now she’s just complaining all the time how he’s falling behind and the teachers don’t do much extra to help him. Or a family with a foreign background, kid having loads of extra help to speak the language, finally making progress… then returning to their homeland for the whole of the summer , missing the last month of school. Teachers could start all over again when they got back.

So where would you draw the line? 1 week won’t hurt most kids, but possibly some kids . A month will probably hurt more kids.

While I may agree with you about tick and flick as it goes, you're missing the point spectacularly and it worries me that you're responsible for educating the next generation with firstly your lack of grasping a bigger picture and secondly with your revolting attitude. I also have no clue about stars and wishes but then I was predominantly a KS4 and 5 specialist so I left the little kids to people like you.

My point is, oh wonderful teacher of which I should be in awe, clearly 🙄 is in the school I refer to during the period I refer to, the marking policy was still 4 different coloured pens with teacher feedback responded to by the pupil and then a further response by the teacher. Pretty much what finished me and education off as it goes which is why I enjoyed watching it's progress 😂 but anyway, because it was obvious that wasn't being done, it made me question what else wasn't being done and then I uncovered all sorts of cans of worms.

As I've said before several times, once the schools start keeping their side of the bargain, I'll keep mine, and my current thinking is state education is going to hell in a handcrart and I need to step up and educate my kids as best I can personally. If I could afford it as a single parent, I'd give up work and Home Ed in an instant.

Now off you pop and go bully someone else 🙄

Yeah.

But that isn’t for the education. The children in question were not at the level intended in the first place is what you are saying…?

If a child is already not at least at the level expected, taking him/her out will not be great. Even though these families will surely have a different reasoning as to why it was best. So, yeah, I agree… 1 week if the child is at expected level and the parents do the education but they say. 2 weeks top if international flights.

I wouldn’t hear any complaint after them taking them out though.

🤯

Yes, smartphones, changes in attitudes, along with the impact of covid have caused all nations to drop. But England is the only country to stay above the average.

Revolting attitude that giving feedback helps learning more than ticking and flicking? That is so revolting and I shouldn't be in charge of kids as helping them learn is a bad thing you say! Calling me a worry for being with kids is defamatory and you might want to rethink making such a statement.

Bullying? You think debating is bullying? You worked in a school and 1) do not understand what debating is and 2) do not understand what bullying is.

You cannot cope with being challenged. Someone disagreeing with you is not bullying it is called debating. Basic understanding of concepts wouldn;'t go amiss.

So you are talking about one school back in the day and applying it to multiple schools that you do not know?

You are very defensive whippy - you don't seem comfortable with points for discussion😂 It's just an idea, I'm not a policy-maker, are you? I have not thought through all the permutations but it's a lot more bloody workable than the other nonsense of limiting holiday prices.
It just strikes me that the kids are missing out and parents are paying quite significant fines and maybe the two things could be connected up some way.
I have no skin in the game - my kids left school years ago.

Just asking how it would work as staff in schools are on the minutes and doing something every minute of every day. Maybe the kids do it after school and agencies bought in with the money?

Oh I am comfortable discussing it - talk away. I have no skin in the game - I have no kids and while I work as a teacher I never pay the prices parents do I always pay cheap prices for holidays so no idea why they opt for the more expensive ones!

No, I'm talking about one school before Christmas. Look, I'm not sure who you think you are, but firstly things are only defamatory if they're not true, so no rethinking necessary, and secondly, you've just proved my entire point about you by being so aggressive and downright nasty throughout all your posts. 'Such parents' told me all I need to know. I wouldn't want you within a mile of my children's classroom so your views on ticking and flicking are superfluous. I'm also convinced that many 'such parents' would agree.

Yes maybe it could be agency staff - I just think there should be consequences for decisions and the kids involved have had time off for holidays they should have to catch up and they should be supported in that effort - paid for by the fines the parents pay feels like a neat solution.

All I can day is wow. Holidays do the kids good. It dosent affect the other children, infact I am friends with a few teachers and they agree that some holidays are educational. I took my kids out of school for holidays a few times. The 1 time we went to Normandy and saw the d day landing beaches. My son was so fascinated by it, when he went back to school, he stood in front of the class and talked to them about it. What happens when a child is sick, does that distrubt the class aswell ?, because its the same thing