Parents need to stop lying about term time holidays

[Ljcrow]

If parents want to take their kids out of school for a term time holiday because it's cheaper, I wish they wouldn't give the bullshit that it's an "educational experience". There's an article about this on the BBC today, but working in a school I've heard it all before. Can we not pretend that an all-inclusive to Lanzarote or similar is a rich cultural and educational experience?! If you want to take your kids our because it's cheaper that's up to you but don't try claim the moral high ground, no one's falling for it. (Fwiw I think holiday companies shouldn't be allowed to hike their prices up in school holidays, it's disgraceful, and as a parent myself I have no choice but to pay those inflated prices. It sucks.)

It's not clear whatsoever. I said feel free to not comment, you said you did comment. That makes zero sense.
And as you're presumably not a mumsnet administrator, you can't dictate what others can or cannot post, therefore I'll contine to post what I please.
Have a fabulous evening 🌺

I specifically and only referred to the parents who allowed their child to drown twice as feckless! Well the twice I grabbed him from the bottom of the pool! We were not in the hotel that much so I wouldn’t be surprised if other holiday makers had also rescued him!

My comment about the pizza, nuggets and never leaving the hotel demonstrates that many holidays are not educational or enriching.

The Cannaries and North Africa are still very good for holidays for the two weeks Christmas holidays and October and February half term holidays!

If you live in a tourist destination (seaside) then why not consider long weekends around the bank holidays to city destinations? Berlin can be done on a shoestring, as can Budapest, Rome, Marrakesh. Alternatively do what we are doing in half term… book an air B&B and head to London… full of history, and the museums are free of charge!

I don’t know of anyone that can’t take a single week off during the 13 weeks of school holidays each year!

We once got a once in a lifetime opportunity to do something after we won free tickets. It was just for the day, but the school just automatically refused permission. It was probably quite educational if you like cars...

Your also assuming all parents take their kids out to go to all inclusive rubbish, I’ve just taken my child to Finland in January, mainly both parents work in hospitality/tourism roles therefore such holiday times are prime work times, but our kids certainly got some wonderful experiences that would more than rival school learning.

Not ridiculous at all. I frequently walked past the pub, with groups of MY teachers sitting in there at lunchtime, fags in hand. They definitely weren't sitting in their classrooms, catching up with work or doing lunchtime duties.

Times have changed. Teachers workloads have massively increased. Research it yourself if you don't believe me.

From the perspective of teachers I know, it is very stressful when children disappear for a week. Multiply this by several children and it is logistically difficult and disruptive. We live in a society where we need to consider the impact on other people. ‘If everyone did that, what would the world be like’ is a good question to ask yourself when you consider whether or not a behaviour is ok.

Totally agree!

School holiday childcare is expensive and when you factor in the loss of education, fines or court appearances etc….

During Covid we took holidays in Scotland which were fantastic and super cheap! People forget that the UK has lots of history and natural beauty!

Scottish schools have different term times to England so at the end of August the beaches and castles are quiet and accommodation is very affordable!

Plenty of people will make excuses for taking their kids out of school… you can see it on this thread!

Personally I wouldn’t take my kids out of school no matter how difficult it is to organise, you don’t have to have your main holiday in the summer holidays if you want to travel. Plenty of fabulous cities in Europe are extremely cheap to visit in the school holidays (business destination flights actually get much cheaper).

You don’t have to book a package holiday

You can book a year in advance to save money, you can usually do it with a small £200 deposit which protects you from price rises!

Wouldn’t the dinner lady be unable to take a holiday during term time? They have term time contracts like teachers!

Imagine how parents would feel if teachers didn’t turn up to school for a couple of weeks because they wanted to save a bit of money on their holiday and kids did home learning?

After all plenty of people on this thread have either said that kids don’t learn anything at school, or that missing a week or two of education a year ‘didn’t do them any harm’

If you take your kids out of school for two weeks a year for a holiday each year 4-18 years that’s 28 weeks of lost education or half of a school year!

Imagine how parents would feel if teachers didn’t turn up to school for a couple of weeks because they wanted to save a bit of money on their holiday and kids did home learning?

That would be an actually valid point to make if the kids were on employment contracts and getting paid. If we're going to take the view that staff and pupils ought to have access to the same things, that applies to much more than holidays!

I am a teacher. Have taken DS out of school when our holidays didn't match (same borough so should always be the same).

Here's the thing - I don't care if you take them out in years 7,8,9 - but don't in Key Stage 4. I have a kid in year 11 who has had loads of time off for holidays. They miss so much.

And please don't ask me to set work so they can keep up. Just get them to read a book.

And that paragon of virtue and truth Tony Blair took his own children on holiday to the Seychelles, when they should have been at school. He was also saying at the time "we're all middle class".

A boy in my year 7 class has had two weeks off ill. He's come back with a very healthy glow and sun kissed hair!

It is a valid point. We expect the teachers to turn up, and they expect children to turn up. It's part of the rules or 'contract' when you sign your child up to attend state school, that you will bring them every day on time unless they are unwell, just as a teacher is expected to turn up every day unless they are unwell.

And yes, the teachers receive a benefit from this contract - payment. Our children receive a benefit - an education.

Any contract has a benefit and a responsibility, whether thats a written contract or a social contract. But some seem to want the benefit without the responsibility.

Lmao no it isn't.

Teachers have an actual, existing contract of employment. Pupils and families do not. We in fact do not sign up to anything in sending our children to the schools that we collectively fund. There is a substantial difference between a known contract with words in it and a social contract that you've no more right to decide the contents of than anyone else.

And on the social contract point specifically, that has clearly changed in recent years. Making school a nice to have for an extended period messed around with it, shockingly enough. People learned during lockdown that school attendance didn't have to happen if there was a good enough reason, and we as a society attribute a lot of value to holidays and travelling. This is the thing about social contracts, they aren't simply dictated by the state.

I completely agree with you that a weeks AI in lanzarote sitting around a pool isn’t educational, however we have never been on that sort of holiday in our lives so it’s a bit of a sweeping assumption on your part that all parents go on holidays like that!

Our holidays (taken in school hols since our eldest was in school) are always educational for our children - just like most things we do with them are. On holidays they are learning about foreign culture, food, traditions, climate, wildlife, botany, and language. I wouldn’t take them out of school for holidays but it is tempting given the price difference. I also wouldn’t use the reason that our holidays are by default educational, as that’s just a given that any time with parents is educational in some way.

It doesn't matter that YOU don't know anyone that can't. It clearly happens- the 8 that work alongside ny husband can't and other families in our local area can't because it's a very popular tourist seaside area. Out of those 8 people, six have school aged kids.

It's Feb half term in a couple of weeks- he would love to have the week off with the kids so we can do things together - he has to have next week off instead.

Also don't get bank holidays off as weirdly enough, that's when lots of tourists avoiding school holidays come. Those weekends he works a 7 day week because it is so busy.

This is pretty typical with many of the independent or small businesses in this area, and I imagine most seaside resorts.

We don't want long weekends in cities. We want to go somewhere warm, sunny with swimming pools, cheesy entertainment and for a week or two to relax.

Just because you saw those children stay in the complex and eating chicken nuggets doesn't mean there was no enrichment or educational value. I have a neighbour who is probably what you would describe as one of those families. I don't particularly like her, but I can see that when she does take her kids on holiday, they get a hell a lot out of it, because its a new experience to the kids. They've told me about the plane journey, about their friend from Germany, about how they couldn't swim when they got there but by the end they were jumping in the pool.

That's enrichment right there that they wouldn't have gotten from being in school that week.

I say all of this as a former teacher, with a mum who teaches and friends who are still in the profession. They all think fines (and the fact families feel like they have to lie to justify a holiday) are ridiculous.

The children they are more concerned about are the ones who have a day off every week, the children who clearly get no enrichment at all at home, or don't come to school because their parents have no food in for a packed lunch or can't afford the school trip that day and don't want the school to know,or they can't get to school that day because they don't have the bus fare.

Those are the children who deserve the concern, not the ones who nick a few days off school once a year for a family holiday.

Much better and easier to ban "dynamic pricing" then holidays would be a similar price in school holidays.
It's a legal requirement to have your child educated, it's a wish to go on holiday- you can't really expect to be able to deny your child schooling just to save money-the logical conclusion of that is send them out to work , like they did in the 19th century before the Education Act.

I know someone who said their child was ill bit they were found out by their holiday pics on social media

Supply & demand! When demand rises but supply doesn't (seats on planes, hotel rooms/ other accommodation) then providers can charge more & people will pay🤷‍♀️

Then educate and babysit your own kids full and time at your own cost as you grew and birthed them they are your responsibility. My tin foil view 🤣

This is a very English thing though it doesn't happen in Ireland or Northern Ireland for example and everyone is mostly in schooll and get a good education..why is it necessary?.

Used to be a governor at a primary, most children will be fine with the odd week out of school but a significant percentage will not be fine. They need every minute of school and will fall (further) behind if deprived of it.

Schools can't allow some to take term time holiday while forbidding others so it has to be a blanket ban.

Seeing firsthand the improvement gained by some children from small interventions, I believe school staff when they say full attendance is vital for many children to get the best life chances, 'Every child matters' isn't just an empty slogan.

People do really seem to struggle with the notion that others people live in the places they holiday in, and work in the industry that serves them whilst they're there, and don't just pop up from nowhere when they visit but have families, lives and children, and need to be available for the times when everyone else is off so they actually get service from places that are open. All 13 weeks are busier than term time, which means being away from your business or employment during those times isn't the best idea.
I guess those kids can just go to school all year and then childcare for all the holidays and never have the experience of a family holiday or even just spending uninterrupted time with their families.
My dad was in the police, and he got some leave during the school holidays when I was supposed to spend some time with him, cancelled due to something pretty big happening, his alternative leave was term time. School actively encouraged me going to stay with him for the week as arranged, but just during term time instead. Common sense was used.

And yes, there's children not attending school because of factors that are far more negative than an all inclusive round the pool job. Parents lie because they might as well try and make it sound plausible and stand a chance of not getting fined.

Last year we were on holiday in August and we made friends with a family that run a B&B in Dorset and they used agency staff to cover their family business in the school holidays!

If there is a will, then there is a way!

Given how dreadful the weather is between October and May in the UK I genuinely can’t believe that there isn’t any opportunity in the entire 13 weeks of school holidays to take a school holiday break!

I also note that you are not bothered by cultural or educational enrichment… highlighting that chicken nuggets are ‘educational enrichment’ … really!

You specifically state:

”We don't want long weekends in cities. We want to go somewhere warm, sunny with swimming pools, cheesy entertainment and for a week or two to relax.”

Which over 14 years of formal education is up to 28 weeks of lost education, which equates to at least half of an academic year per child!

You claim to have been a teacher, but yet don’t seem to be able to undertake basic comprehension of my posts… or acknowledge that your actions could have a negative impact on your children’s future prospects!

Finally swimming pools, beaches, chicken nuggets and cheesy entertainment can be found throughout the UK (You should check out Western Super Mare) and are not things that you need to travel overseas for!

Your posts make it clear why the following is required

Breakdown of Fines: -

5 days or 10 sessions missed for unauthorised reasons: £80 per child, per parent/carer, paid within 21 days or £160 paid within 28 days.

If, within a three-year period, a parent gets a second fine they will be charged automatically the higher rate of £160 per child.

Fines are capped to two fines within any three-year period.

After the cap, if a child is taken out again, a Parenting Order or prosecution will be considered. If parents/carers are prosecuted and attend court there could be a fine for up to £2,500.

So carry on…..