Parents need to stop lying about term time holidays

[Ljcrow]

If parents want to take their kids out of school for a term time holiday because it's cheaper, I wish they wouldn't give the bullshit that it's an "educational experience". There's an article about this on the BBC today, but working in a school I've heard it all before. Can we not pretend that an all-inclusive to Lanzarote or similar is a rich cultural and educational experience?! If you want to take your kids our because it's cheaper that's up to you but don't try claim the moral high ground, no one's falling for it. (Fwiw I think holiday companies shouldn't be allowed to hike their prices up in school holidays, it's disgraceful, and as a parent myself I have no choice but to pay those inflated prices. It sucks.)

I’m not saying I agree with fines…but parents do have a choice. They choose to enroll their child in the government provided childcare then they agree to the terms and conditions of that. It’s a contract. If they don’t like those terms and conditions then they can hone educate, send a child to a private school with different holidays. Don’t get your knickers in a twist about the government trying to control you when they aren’t, they are just trying to ensure kids in the school system abide by the agreement made when parents sign up for it.

I had a manager once who openly said that she hated children, hated parents and no one who asked her for any time off with the child as the excuse would get it. There was literally a blanket ban on leave during school holidays, for this reason only.

There are choices for some people, yes. To be clear, are you saying you think everyone in England has at least one viable educational choice other than state school? Your 'choice' claim was about education, after all.

I wholly agree. They should focus their attentions on failing parents, not those trying to travel with their kids in an affordable way.

I was a teacher for 20 years before fines. Children being off for holidays was normal and didn’t matter one bit. I even, shock horror, have them some catch up work. It wasn’t a big deal.

Every school and teacher knows which families can’t be arsed to take their children to school. And generally they are going to do pretty shit in life anyway due to the parents that they have. Being in school more does not really change their future prospects whatever the government say.

Nope not a teacher. And yes i m very lucky as in i can afford a roof over our heads and to heat it and food. But and it is a big but, i do have to budget. And not going on holidays term times and therefore paying hiked prices is in the budget.

i cant afford long haul holidays so we drive during holiday times to places. Yes I value education and you dont need a once in lifetime holiday, and you re certainly not owned one, to give your children a once in a lifetime experiences.

rounded education starts at home

@Travelodge those other kids didn’t feel anything because the teachers didn’t bother catching us up because they had the common sense to know 5 days didn’t particularly matter. School’s didn’t really care about all that in the 90s they just got on with things.

I'm a single parent who has to book what we call "hotspot" leave over a year in advance. Both my children are SEN and missing day of education impacts them massively. I can't afford a holiday in the school holidays. I have to work most of them anyway.

It means we have never been abroad and the last UK holiday I could afford was 9 years ago. I have not had a decent pay rise in over 10 years so will never be able to afford term time holidays. I struggle to afford holiday time days trips and both children wouldn't cope with the crowds anyway. We would have to go somewhere much quieter, which ultimately means much more expensive.

Its miserable for me and for my DC. Due to it being hotspot leave i can only have odd days, or half weeks.

I don't know what the answer is.

When parent are saying that they took a camping holiday in North Wales in term time because that is all they can afford, I would support them wholeheartedly.

But it is always a holiday abroad.

But the impact on the child's education, if any, is exactly the same. So what difference does it make?

Any choice relies on your personal circumstances. For dinner tonight, I have choices. I could eat the food in my fridge, I could order a takeaway, I could go to McDonalds or I could go to the fanciest restaurant in the area and spend £200 on dinner. This depends on what I have in my fridge, what takeaways deliver to me, if I can get transport to McDonalds or a fancy restaurant and if I have £200. If I don't have all of these advantages, I can't then claim I have no choice about what to eat. I do, it's just that only one is currently available to me, and most of that is down to the choices I've made up to now.

There are single Mums working full time and home-educating. There are working class families working overtime in order to pay for private education. There are people who drive an hour each way to drop their child off at a school that offers flexi-schooling. Just because your lifestyle doesn't fit around those options doesn't mean you don't have the choice.

im in Scotland so no fines here. The schools wish us a lovely holiday when we tell them we are going.

This is not accurate. True, there aren't any fines, but (at least in the 3 LAs around me) they are very clear they don't want you taking your kids out during term time, and if your kid falls behind because of it, it's up to you to catch them up.

In my daughter's P6 year of primary school, the week before school holidays almost half her class was missing. There is little excuse for it in Scotland as we have 2 or 3 weeks of holiday before the major price hike in holidays happens as peak times tend to reflect English holidays. You can easily travel from Central Scotland to Newcastle or Manchester for a much cheaper flight. Even with booking a pre flight hotel you will save money.

I have no issue with people who choose to do it. I personally wouldn't because my daughter has time off for medical reasons and she hates missing school. But I agree with the OP. Stop pretending it's an educational experience. It isn't it's a cheaper holiday, and that's ok.

I also have some sympathy for the lady featured in the BBC article. We holiday in the UK, and because we start holidays earlier we go before the price hikes hit. However, this means we are in peak school trip period for attractions and for my autistic daughter, that can be difficult. That said, we just manage it as best we can.

Yes, any choice is reliant on people's personal circumstances. Which is why the idea that everyone has one is so bold.

So to be clear, do all families in England have at least one viable choice other than state education? Everyone has access to the time, resources and literacy to homeschool and/or the cash for private?

Yes or no will do, don't need examples of people who had choices and made them as obviously they can't cover the whole population.

@MotionIntheOcean I meant that we take a holiday abroad in the first week or two of our 6 week holidays and that is before English schools are off or we go in our October holidays which again are not always at the same time as the English holidays.Just as parents the other way will visit Scotland when ours are back at school and it's cheaper for them.

It isn't. There's already someone in this thread who has said otherwise.

You will get more who can afford to go abroad because of the demographics of MN, of course, but then nobody ever said this website was representative!

Do you have friends or family who's house you can use when they go on holiday? That's what we have done many years

I've answered your question, so why are you asking it again?

You have choices. Your lifestyle/circumstances may mean some of them are not viable. Luckily, unlike many countries in the world, you have access to free state education. It comes with some rules.

If, for whatever reason, you've decided that state education is the only option which works for your family, the drawback is that you are expected to follow the rules, which are there for the benefit of everyone, not just your child.

Actually I think an “AI to Lanzarote” is a rich cultural experience, for example for a child who had never been on plane and gone abroad before.

I have known children who live in London, who have never even been on the underground before and had to be carried crying on the huge escalators when going on school trips.

But many parents can't afford to go on holiday in school holidays when prices are much, much higher.

Can't afford to go on holiday, or can't afford to go on the overseas holiday they'd like to?

You can have a holiday on a budget even during school holidays, it just won't be a week in a Spanish hotel.

i understand why they have these policies, there are going to be vulnerable children who need to be in school and who have failing attendance because they're in difficult or awful situations with parents who can't be arsed and don't care.

However, most of our kids are in the schools long enough for the teachers to be able to understand which parents are actively engaged in their children's lives and education where they know a few days out of school are not going to be the end of the world.

Hmm, ish. You first tried to make it about choice of holidays, then said choices are constrained by circumstances, which obviously raises the possibility that circumstances might prevent it. Now you've said we all have choices but some of them might not be viable. Which seems to now mean you're accepting that actually, any given family might actually have no option other than state education? If so, that rather undermines all this 'choice' rhetoric.

It's a shit argument anyway, because education isn't something that's just bestowed by daddy benefactor government. It's collectively funded and run, which means people saying we just have to lump whatever stupid policy because the state cannot be questioned are in the wrong.

But it's also worth spelling out that the assumption that it's always a choice is ridiculously privileged and unrealistic. Some families only have state education. There is no getting round this.

Not every parent can afford the peak time prices. If they don’t take them outside of peak time then that child probably won’t get to experience a holiday at all.

You surely don't think everyone is capable of affording a UK school holidays break? There are some people who are doing a weekday term time cheapo Parkdean or Sun, or nothing.

If you think those people should get nothing, say that, but it's really privileged to assume everyone can afford what passes for budget holidays out of term.

Agree for holidays shoupd not be allowed. But for families who go back home to visit parents and show their kids their background, culture and language it should be allowed.
I never had a holiday until I was 24. We would go for 2/3 werks every 2 years (due to prices) to visit family in our home country. I would be staying in the mountains learning so much, language, cooking, working day to day there and even how to play and have fun.

This. Even camping in the summer hols isn't cheap these days.