Parents need to stop lying about term time holidays

[Ljcrow]

If parents want to take their kids out of school for a term time holiday because it's cheaper, I wish they wouldn't give the bullshit that it's an "educational experience". There's an article about this on the BBC today, but working in a school I've heard it all before. Can we not pretend that an all-inclusive to Lanzarote or similar is a rich cultural and educational experience?! If you want to take your kids our because it's cheaper that's up to you but don't try claim the moral high ground, no one's falling for it. (Fwiw I think holiday companies shouldn't be allowed to hike their prices up in school holidays, it's disgraceful, and as a parent myself I have no choice but to pay those inflated prices. It sucks.)

I never understand why people get so het up about this these days when in the 90s it was pretty standard to have the odd week off for a holiday - no more than one a year.

I just see it as a tax to discourage an unwanted behaviour. I don’t generally take mine out in term time but we will be doing 1 week skiing next year as an absolute one off as grandparents are desperate to take them. I’ll just tell the school and take the fine.

Also, it’s only a matter of time before Reform clock on to this and promise to scrap fines so that normal people can take a holiday and then it will be game set and match to them. I can’t think of a bigger vote winner with the masses.

Eh? Free education has been hard fought for across the globe because parents want the best for their kids. Even when first granted it is usually ended at a young age but over time that age gets moved up because parents demand it. It's not hard to see that parents want an education for their kids.

The exception are the feeble parents who rate holidays over their kids education and prospects.

I took my DS out for a week and didn’t get a fine. Possibly because he had 100% attendance up until that point? He’s autistic with a one-to-one so I guess the class could probably make use of his TA for the week.

The focus on term time holidays is honestly bizarre. It is not the issue. Attendance is down due to school refusers and a shift in attitude towards structured education in schools. The sooner this is recognised and the government attendance stats adjusted, the better.

I can’t do holidays in term time but would if I could.

This is a really interesting thread- only because this morning I was discussing my best friends (DCs godmother) impending trip from Australia home and how I could maximise the time that my DC get to spend with her. They haven't seen her for 8 years. They haven't met her children.

One of my DC has lower (albeit authorised) attendance at school because he has to attend various appointments with the NHS due to his medical needs- appointments are invariably during school hours. Normally they miss at least half a day due to travel time, waiting time and whatever time it takes to get the appt done. Obviously we have to accept the appointments when they come because I'm extremely grateful that they receive the medical care they need for free.

Other DC is undergoing treatment for dental care- to access NHS service for this, appointments are only allocated between 9&3 in school term (I know this because I asked whether we could have an appt after school!).

Someone upthread mentioned about the constant pressure to be in school making children constantly ill which I do hugely relate to- same DC also has SEN and by week four of term is absolutely burnt out. The last two weeks of every term are a real struggle to get them up, in, with as few meltdowns as possible. When they have a meltdown that impacts their whole day at school, impacting other children, their teacher.

Why is it OK for statutory services to interrupt DCs education and not ok for a parent to decide to take their child out of school for a holiday (which in most cases I imagine helps with emotional/mental health)?

I've got huge splinters in my bottom about this- I'd like to take DC out of school for a three-day priceless trip with their godmother (who is here in term time)- but both have "lower" absence because of their medical needs as I am constantly reminded and bashed over the head with. They never win "attendance awards". It's not their fault that they need medical care. Its not my fault.. it's just the way it is.
But if they could have just some of their appointments after/before school hours, or in the holidays, it would have an enormous impact!

You only get fined for sessions missed over 10… so if he was absent for 5 days, then no fine. If you were to take him out again and it was unauthorised, those sessions would be fined.

Have you not heard of learning through play?

It's literally a fundamental part of the curriculum in younger years, and it doesn't mean older kids don't get anything from it.

Playing in the pool - swimming, throwing and catching balls, poolside safety.

Sandcastles - design & tech, science (eg can't build sandcastles with soft dry sand, need damp sand - why?)

The sea - tides, safety around water, rock pooling

Meeting other people from different backgrounds, cultures etc

Different currencies - maths

New foods and drinks

Languages

Learning about self care and relaxing

Aeroplanes - huge science and technology opportunity

Sun safety

Packing for a trip - life skills

These are just the ones off the top of my head.

We go to 'tacky' all inclusive beach and sun holidays because we love them, and my children, aged from teenagers down to 5 all get an incredible amount of learning and enrichment from them, and we live on the coast so go to the beach regularly at home as well.

Kids are a part of life. Book a adults only holiday or suck it up.

I don't take my children on holiday in term time, but I hate the whole fine system and think it's shitty to fine parents for making a choice to take their own children out.

Mind you, I had a home visit from a teacher to make sure my child was really ill on day 3. It felt so intrusive to have to get my ill child to come downstairs to prove she was ill.

Do you have the faintest idea what it is like from late March onwards with 2, 3, 4 kids, maybe even more, missing from each and every class for a holiday, on top of the legitimate absences for sickness or bereavement? You can have nearly a quarter of the class in front of you missing key parts of the topic, and those that are missing bits will all be missing different bits not the same bits. As a teacher, this affects how you teach the class, what you teach the class and how much you can get through in a term. It also affects behaviour because some of those who are falling slightly behind start to mess about.

Every single child's education is affected by class absences even if they are children who never themselves have a term time holiday. Some absensces can't be helped. Holidays can be helped.

Nobody goes into teaching because they want to stop people going on holiday. If teachers are saying it affects teaching and learning then they are saying it because it affects teaching and learning. Self-justify or say 'who cares' all you want but it is that simple.

It is only England that seem to be so anal about it .

There are so many different circumstances - A/l only available in school times / disabilities ( the idea they can’t go somewhere they would enjoy in quieter times is frankly discriminatory )
finance is a reason , family living abroad, weddings , but I think so many people think that learning comes from a text book .

we did a all inclusive in Lanzarote . We went on a day trip to the volcanoes , he also learnt social skills , making friends , core strength swimming every day .
tried new foods for an autistic child is bigger than..

but in reality my son was so much more happier , more his authentic self on holiday.

we are out the education system now so it doesn’t affect me anymore.

when he started school we did a trip to Lego land rather than sports day, he wouldn’t of coped with sports day so would have required a member of staff to be in a classroom with him.

In reference to my post I am not for one minute slagging the NHS off- and this isn't schools fault either. It feels like a vicious circle!

It's part of a wider societal trend to think that your child is the only one who matters.

State education is far from perfect. There are 30 children per class and the teacher's job is to have all of those children progressing at the same rate and learning the same things. This requires very specific planning with multiple levels of differentiation to ensure that all children have accessed all of the curriculum by the end of the year.

Maybe, you took your kid to Machu Picchu and they learned loads about Inca civilisation and came back fitter, smarter and full of adventure.

They also missed the first week of this year's fractions module. The rest of the kids are moving on to converting fractions to decimals, but yours needs to go back to the start of the module and either the teacher or the TA, if the class is lucky enough to have one, who are both needed by other children in the class, is going to have to devote the next week almost exclusively to catching your child up.

There are 39 weeks in the school year, and if all parents are just taking their child out for "cultural enrichment" for one of those weeks, that's the majority of the school year where the adults the school can afford to fund are running around trying to fill the gaps caused by the children missing chunks of learning.

It's not about YOUR kid, you chose a system of learning which is entirely based on moving as a herd. Wouldn't it be lovely if you could have schools operate on a level where each individual child has their own individualised learning and can plan their holidays around that. Maybe one day with AI, but that time is not now.

And not everyone can, that's the whole point. Some people can't afford to go out of term time, some people can't because annual leave doesn't allow for it- I mentioned above that my husband is not allowed* to take annual leave during school holidays as that is a busy time (we live in a tourist area!), so when would my children get to have these times?

That's clearly a no then.

It's interesting, because only a couple of pages back we had someone who's taught in a developing country where education isn't free telling us that actually, kids are off for various reasons and parents do take them out. It was at 11.20, if you want to look back. Perhaps those parents are feeble too, since they don't fit with your preconceived ideas?

I don’t know. We talk about poor mental health in children, lack of ethics and morals, lack of British culture, lack of critical thinking.

There’s the school raising your children, and algorithm silos on social media.

Holidays aren’t just sunbathing. Even if your doing that your spending time with family. Your talking. Your giving time, strengthening bonds and passing on knowledge to your children that a school can’t really cover.

We also as individuals have skills too. Many arguably more specialised than teachers. Whether thats financial literacy, a lawyer unbeknownst raising the next human rights leader, an entrepreneur, a botanist, a doctor, a mechanic, a physicist, a geologist. You have no idea what skills parents have. They might be sitting on a sunbed in lanzarote - and be being taught about bird migration, climate change, economics, WW2, politics, and for teenagers debate skills 😂 You literally have no idea whether these children are or are not learning anything.

I think time with parents and family has a lot of value.

I am against the holiday ban.

do you not teach your kids? And i don't mean as in homeschooling, but in teaching them in general.

I can drive to school and a radio news article will spark a political conversation in the car that allows me to teach DD about politics, or religion, or space, science.

We walk and i'm teaching them about nature, the environment, having conversations about the flora and fauna around us.. we talk about the weather.

The beach can spark a conversation about the tides, and the moon, and the wildlife and reefs and fish and oceans,.. a meal about the food chain, cooking, other countries and their cuisine.

I'm always, through conversation teaching my kids. Don't you teach yours?

It's not about YOUR kid, you chose a system of learning which is entirely based on moving as a herd.

As if most people in England have multiple viable choices other than state education. I don't know what planet some of you are on.

What about other countries? Are we the strictest? I know it all got changed but I can’t remember what specifically England and not everywhere else?

Children in Africa can also drop in and out of school as their parents see fit. Because education is an opportunity, not a prison sentence.

My relatives on the continent are bewildered that no term time holidays are allowed here.

The GREAT Britain - where children are not allowed a week away from the education but drink led in their tap water since birth. Priorities - we always have them right!

Any holiday anywhere is more valuable than the one or two weeks missed school work.
Ask me how I know.

She's my child, not the school's and not the government's, so they both can fuck off. I take her wherever I want to, whenever I want to.

We don't go to 'Lanzarote all inclusive'. We've just been to Krakow, visited Auschwitz, Wawel castle, archeological museum, St. Mary's basilica, Banksy museum, Wielycka salt mines and the historical old town. In Madrid we went ro Prado and La Reina Sophia galleries, etc. In Koln we went to Koln Cathedral and Roman archeological museum. Now we're going to Paris followed by Venice and we'll be visiting bunch of different cultural/educational spots. And yes, one day in Disney too. All that gives my DD much more than a week in school could ever provide.

That said, I don't lie. I don't consider our holidays any of their business whatsoever, so I either don't tell them anything at all and go where I want to, or just tell them we're going on a holiday if I can be bothered. Their stupid attendance bullshit, letters and fines don't bother me. Teachers are paid employees, not a Pope of Rome, I'm not going to plead and grovel in front of them. Do your damn job and keep your beak out of people's business.

By whose standards isn’t it educational? Our last all incl hol involved our children learning to swim, making friends with kids from other countries, attending the hotel’s Spanish classes every day, visiting a bookshop to buy the Spanish versions of their favourite books, visiting the cathedral and local historical sights and doing art, yoga and animal care. But I’m sure that doesn’t fit in with the idea of what working class, all inclusive holiday booking families get up to by MN standards.

There are choices. State education is the cheapest and the most convenient option. It also comes with rules. The reason they've got tough on fines was because of all the people ignoring them and thinking it didn't apply to them, because their child learned physics by making a sandcastle.

We live on a small island. There's very few parts of the UK where you can't get to the beach and back in a day, or book an Air BnB and stay Friday night -Sunday.

You also do not need a beach or sunshine to "make memories" with your kids. They have 13 weeks (or 25% of the year) off school. You can make plenty of memories at the local park.

We’re away now and pulled them out of school. It’s education in the sense that they’re learning to ski. I really, really don’t believe a single week off disrupts my or any other child’s education. Any recapping that needs to be done will be, but I don’t think vast swathes of ground will be covered in our absence. And as far as I’m concerned, it is totally worth it for the quiet slopes and half price trip.