Parents need to stop lying about term time holidays

[Ljcrow]

If parents want to take their kids out of school for a term time holiday because it's cheaper, I wish they wouldn't give the bullshit that it's an "educational experience". There's an article about this on the BBC today, but working in a school I've heard it all before. Can we not pretend that an all-inclusive to Lanzarote or similar is a rich cultural and educational experience?! If you want to take your kids our because it's cheaper that's up to you but don't try claim the moral high ground, no one's falling for it. (Fwiw I think holiday companies shouldn't be allowed to hike their prices up in school holidays, it's disgraceful, and as a parent myself I have no choice but to pay those inflated prices. It sucks.)

Who is asking for sympathy?

It feels like in this day and age there should be better ways to facilitate children missing lost education eg filming lessons that parents can then get them to watch and do the activities with them, online learning that could be set so parents can catch them up. It should be possible for a parent to teach their child the same info as they learn in class much more efficiently because they can do it on a one to one basis. The clear expectation should be if you don't catch your child up appropriately then next time the school will not support your term time holiday. A bit of pragmatism on both sides would go a long way.

Whilst I agree term time holidays should be discouraged equally I don't think punishing people for taking them is right either.

even with home education there are rules and Rick boxes you must adhere to. My point is we lose an awful lot of choice and control over our own children after 4 short years raising them.

I fully, absolutely plan to home school when it comes to secondary education.

The only reason my children go to primary school is because I wanted them to experience school, make friends, and have options. They can, if they want to go to secondary school but they will absolutely have a choice from me (my preference is obvious but they may want to follow their friends). They might want to go, then decide it’s not for them.. at that point I’m pulling them out.

Unless you develop a good work ethic and resilience (including an ability to get on with work even if you’d rather be doing something else) then you will always struggle to reach your potential, regardless of how smart you are.

But in answer to your question, my kids are academic high achievers (top 5%? of their year group. Eg DS has just passed the entrance exams for a highly selective secondary, and DD was chosen to represent the school in a maths competition). So there probably aren’t that many kids who are “smarter” than them and have worse absence rates, though their successes are a combination of working hard as well as their inherent ability.

It’s no coincidence that super high-performing schools like Queen Elizabeth’s Barnet have minuscule absence rates.

I think your blanket statement is wrong as it doesn’t differentiate enough.

Did our 5 year old benefit educationally and socially during a week off from school in Greece? Yes! Learnt about different currency, history, language, cuisine, improved their swimming, exposed to different sights and smells. Their teacher remarked on them discussing Greek plumbing and toilets on their return.

Would I take them out in exam years? No, as I don’t think the benefits then would outweigh the negatives. Nevertheless in certain contexts holidays abroad in term time can expose children to new experiences that normal school attendance won’t provide.

If schools would tackle the parents who are failing their children and SS interventions were lowered, I'd back the idea of a maximum of only a few days either side of the holidays being taken off. As a GP of two children who are doing well, one top of the class, the other doing her best (AD) and who is kindness personified, I'll defend my DD to the death for grabbing a few days to get the prices down. We like North Africa and we take the Friday before Christmas break up to do a weekend city break. The children do nothing the week before Christmas because of the activities. Realistically the world's weather is changing and summer is no longer viable for holidays, the locals don't want us during water shortages. I struggled to take my children away because I wanted them to see the point of work and that there was a big world out there. I wish we had it pointed out, so during Thatcher's Liverpool in the 1980s we made the connection with were qualifications could get you. Many won't be able to own their own homes, but working can get you perks like holidays, children need that example. A lot of MNers might not get it, but we need to keep the positivity in our inner (outside London) city young people.

I agree with you OP. I know of two mums who take their child out during term time and then they put up a fight with the teachers because their children are behind in class, wanting fewer words for spellings test, wanting things put in place for them to catch up. Err, if you effing cared so much about your child's education try sending them to school! But I guess those who take their children out during term time will pipe up and say its all okay

The snobbery on threads like this is breathtaking. A child going AI to Lanzarote, which is a beautiful island by the way, is still experiencing an airport, a plane, a new country, culture, food and language etc.

I am in no way defending term time holidays but let's not pretend that mc families visiting Himalayan temples or whatever is ok but the above isn't.

Education does not just happen in schools

Wasn't a question. Since I had a poor absence record and got into Oxford anyway, it's not something I'd need to ask. You really were asking for a succession of posters to come and tell you all about how smart they/their DC are without needing to be in every day!

And no, it's simply not the case that missing 5 days of school for a term time holiday means a person will always struggle to reach their potential, however smart they are. That's both copium and reach.

While I don’t necessarily agree some of the holidays are ‘educational’ I do think holidays with family are really good bonding time, having that concentrated time with your family to really relax and enjoy each others company is valuable in my opinion, and the price of doing this outside of term time is ridiculously restrictive. I learned how to properly swim as a child on a family holiday, I had lessons etc but it was that time in the pool just enjoying the experience with my Dad over the course of a holiday that really got me swimming properly.

I think it's better to look over larger, more comprehensive data sets than bright children in leading schools.

Ireland and NI have no fines for term time absences, and it's very normal to go on holiday during the term, especially in primary school. Both have higher educational attainment than England.

I'm not convinced the fines do anything to actually encourage good attendance or tackle absence in families who don't value education. They do pit schools and families against each other which I suspect is far more damaging than a week off a year.

Well, lumping those types of holiday together isn't relevant to the point I was making. Those other types of holiday are more educational than beach holidays imo. To be clear, I'm not being snobby about beach holidays, I enjoy them myself. I just think it's harder for parents to make the 'it's educational' excuse if all they're going to do on the holiday is lie around while the kids paddle and make sandcastles. While that's certainly a fun holiday and it's just as important for kids to have fun as to learn, it's a reach imo to claim it's an educational holiday.

Absolutely. When I see my DM, who has Alzheimer’s, talking about old holidays is one of the few things that can spark a positive change in her. We could only afford cheap holidays on the coast in September, or coach trips to Europe with older people, which DM saved for all year and scrimped on other stuff. We have some lovely photos and memories of Weymouth or Venice. I didn’t particularly suffer from having a week away from school once a year as a kid and the teachers were understanding that it was didn’t begrudge that one week away.

I take my 8yo son out for term time holidays, but I don’t lie to the school about it. And the trips are usually educational. Last year he missed two days of school when we did a long weekend exploring Athens. He missed two days at the start of the year in September while we finished up a week in Lanzarote, which I won’t argue was for his educational benefit for certainly for his mental health and I don’t regret it. He’ll miss a few days before the Easter holidays when we do a cruise to Belgium and France - lots of educational opportunities included.

We have excellent daily communication with his teacher and I know exactly what he’s working on at any time. I have a twinkl membership and other educational subscriptions. He won’t be behind the rest of his class when he gets back from these trips.

Teacher here
Class of 30, weeks are intense and move through the curriculum at a pace. Child returns after a week, [unauthorised holiday] says 'I wasn't here when we did this miss.' What do I do? Put the other 29 on hold while I help the child catch up? Keep the child in at break and lunchtime to teach them what they've missed? Answers on a postcard please, especially if you are a parent of the other 29 who didn't go on holiday.
PS I also have children.

If you don’t want state control, that is a completely acceptable view but it is a slightly difficult stance to take if you are using state education.

It’s a normal supply and demand business model. They are not charities or government sponsored agencies!

They have a v short period in which to make money, as only winter sun destinations are genuinely year round options.

The reality is probably more that they discount holidays in times of low demand, to cover the costs of retaining accommodation and charter flight seats, rather than hiking during the school hols, which actually represent half of the summer anyway.

And be careful what you wish for. You probably have about 8 years pre kids holiday opportunities and 30 after they are grown up. That’s many more years of the discounted prices than full price!

Schools need to stop lying that they need so many 'training' days, they need to stop lying that the weather conditions are so adverse that they can't possibly trust their adult, university educated staff to get into work and so must close. They need to stop making out that school residentials are educational and an 'opportunity' then telling me mine are detrimental.

Not really. We collectively fund state education, and it's clearly possible to run a viable system without it being underpinned by an assumption that parents need to be sanctioned if their kids are away for a bloc of 5 days. They seem to manage fine in Scotland and NI.

🙄

So if you take your child out of school for a holiday in term-time, do you expect some adult in school to give them individual tuition when they come back, to help them catch up on what they’ve missed? Or are you happy for them just to be left to flounder?

I agree with this

Also think taking children out of school gives them a message that "rules are for suckers. We do what we want". And that's not the attitude we want to encourage in society

Surely this isn't really something you would struggle to find an answer to? I rarely have a full class for a full lesson, there's always someone away or someone out of the classroom for some reason. Often several someones. Catch up is just a part of daily teaching routine.

LOUDER for the people in the back!