What's your thoughts on asylum seekers?

[Lynds778]

I'm all for offering asylum to those genuinely in need but I've seen a lot of negative media recently around 'fake' asylum seekers; people pretending to be from war-torn countries etc to gain entry to the country. Also videos of men giving advice for future asylum seekers on where to say you're from so that you can get in.

Also seen a lot of uproar from local communities about asylum seekers behaving anti-socially, most recently hanging around outside a primary school in Deanshanger and it's got me worried.
I'm also wondering why the large majority of asylum seekers are men and there are less women and children?

So, what's your opinion?

Also, this isn't a racist post. I would have the exact same concerns if these were white asylum seekers from Germany for example. The worry is the system is being abused by some and that we are a bit too lax when it comes to documentation and monitoring of asylum seekers.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14058597/Fake-asylum-seekers-conning-way-Britain-telling-Home-Office-war-torn-Eritrea-bragging-thousands-followers-TikTok.html

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14185169/amp/Four-asylum-seekers-costing-taxpayer-estimated-160-000-year-living-575-000-luxury-home-accused-faking-Afghan-nationalities-UK.html

British emigrants are net contributors to their destination countries - take a look at the stats coming out of the Netherlands and Denmark, pretty much the only countries that actually publish data on whether immigrants from different countries of origin are net contributors or net drains.

Brits are top performers in both cases.

The sort of countries that most asylum seekers and other immigrants to the UK are coming from are not.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14259337/map-immigrants-contribute-economy-dutch-study.html

I didn’t say that was the reason I would happily leave. Massive LOLz 😂😂 ffs!

As we’ve established, asylum seekers are less than 7% of the immigrants here, so aren’t making much (if any) difference to the pressures on infrastructure that are making the PP leave the country.

Not all Brit emigrants are net beneficiaries to their new country.

The Daily Mail is not a reliable source of anything except that the person reading it is either thick, a bigot or some fun combination of the two.

That pretty much covers that.

There’s literally nothing funny about this at all - it’s completely accurate. British emigrants are highly skilled and high earners who make massive net contributions to their destination countries (in the region of +€200,000 over their lifetimes).

The vast majority of asylum seekers and other immigrants from poorer countries (e.g. Lebanon, Syria, Iraq) are net drains over the course of their lifetimes - taking up to €300,000 more than they contribute, as data from the Netherlands and Denmark clearly shows. And more troublingly, there is a hangover effect into subsequent generations, who are still not as productive as native Danes and Dutch and likely to be net drains.

All immigrants are not created equal, and people like you pretending that there’s no difference between a highly skilled, super high earning finance professional moving from London to Amsterdam, and asylum seekers from poor and unstable countries, are being incredibly dishonest.

You literally posted about the UK being too small and us needing to close the borders and it was all so shit you’d happily leave.

If you didn’t mean to blame the immigrants for your perceived issues, that was a very strange juxtaposition of thoughts.

Again. Asylum seekers make up 7% of immigration. They aren’t causing any perceived overcrowding.

You’re sticking to the standard defences, I see.

The Daily Mail is simply reporting on the outcomes of a Dutch academic study, using graphs taken directly from that study. It makes no difference which media organisation is reporting it.

If you’d rather have the data from the horse’s mouth, here you go:
https://docs.iza.org/dp17569.pdf

Secondly, re your point - ‘not all Brits are net contributors.’ I’m extremely surprised that you don’t seem to understand the concept of averages. Even including any British emigrants who aren’t net contributors, the average lifetime of a UK expat is still in the hundreds of thousands of euros. That means that many will be contributing far more than that, more than making up for the few who aren’t.

And the Dutch data shows that it doesn’t matter whether these people are asylum seekers - even if they come to the country legally, they are still, on average, net drains on the generous Dutch welfare state.

They are also disproportionately criminal, at a rate which - troublingly - increases in the second generation, as is clearly demonstrated by Danish data.

so you are comparing educated Brits moving to very expensive European countries from one of the wealthiest countries in the world to people fleeing wars?

Doesn’t seem like the most fair comparison, does it?

What about stupid Brits who move to Spain, driving up house prices so the locals can’t buy them, refusing to learn the language and creating little England enclaves?

Do you think they are net contributors?

Or do you think they make the locals wish they could up sticks and emigrate?

I don't know. Maybe it refers to the assumption that they come from countries at war, and they could stay there and fight for their country / community / family

This isn’t just about asylum seekers. It’s about all immigrants. Net migration equivalent to the populations of Cardiff and Nottingham combined, every single year, is absolutely causing overcrowding and rising housing costs.

We’re not building enough homes for the people we already have. How on earth can we keep up with that rate of population increase?

Which demonstrates massive ignorance about many of these countries. It’s not clear cut with a national army (to join) and an invader (to fight). Plus conscientious objectors have always existed.

And??? That was in relation to asylum seekers and the fact the Uk is smaller in comparison to other countries. We do need to close the borders. That still may not stop me from wanting to leave.
Me wanting to leave may be something entirely differently. Read again!!! Ffs! 🤦‍♀️

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c05l9y56773o

I do agree that migration figures overall are a big big problem now. We're going to hit 72 million in a few years. The only way to do that realistically is massive explansion of cities and towns, and huge upgrades to infrastructure, but in reality we're barely keeping pace.
It's going to be miserable.

Goodness knows there are enough reasons to leave

But it’s ok for Brits to go abroad and put similar pressures on other countries housing stock and GP surgeries?

The vast, vast majority of immigration is through visa schemes where certain skills have been identified as lacking in the indigenous population. Before we can stop immigration we need to address the skills shortage (and laziness, tbf).

If you want some non-biased facts about the contribution of immigrants, this is a good resource.

migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/the-fiscal-impact-of-immigration-in-the-uk/

“a study by Oxford Economics (2018) estimated that the average non-EEA migrant in FY 2016-17 presented a net fiscal cost of £1,700, using the static approach. However, it also estimated that the average non-EEA migrant arriving in 2016 would make a small positive net fiscal contribution over the course of their lifetime (of £28,000, net present value), using the dynamic approach. Similarly, dynamic projections from OBR (2024) suggested that a migrant worker who moved to the UK at age 25 and earned the UK average earnings (which is similar to migrants’ average earnings) until retirement would contribute £341,000 to public finances if they lived until age 80.“

Yes, self sufficient British pensioners moving to Spain are absolutely net contributors on a financial basis.

The British consul in Alicante has stated the figures for the Alicante province alone amount to €1.32 billion a year. Over 25% of all British expats live in that area).

https://www.forbes.com/sites/stephenpope/2019/03/02/spain-shows-sense-in-dealing-with-british-expatriates/

It’s usually middle class Brits who find these working class British expats so culturally objectionable - perhaps you should examine your own snobbery. With regards to ‘not learning the language’, these are 70+ year olds who moved there to enjoy their retirement, not to work or raise families. They’re only going to be there 1-2 decades tops - and post-Brexit, there aren’t going to be many more of them.

Yeah, I don’t think it’s my comprehension that’s the issue here 😂

It Is. You simply need to re read the post 🤦‍♀️

Previous waves of immigrants have had a positive impact on the UK. I think we should do a better job of helping current day asylum seekers to integrate. ao that they can do the same.

"Also, this isn't a racist post. I would have the exact same concerns if these were white asylum seekers from Germany for example. The worry is the system is being abused by some and that we are a bit too lax when it comes to documentation and monitoring of asylum seekers."

No, you wouldn't. Stop lying.

lol at someone who thinks all non-British immigrants have nothing to add accusing me of snobbery.

I don’t find them culturally objectionable - I’m trying to make clear how ridiculous it is to blame immigrants for all the UK’s issues, then suggest the solution could be emigration.

Don't forget, more than half of UK citizens are net drains on this country - and whilst some have legitimate reasons for this, none of them have the spectre of war and tyranny to blame.

Wrt the posters who want to keep increasing this number, how high should it be?

Please stop saying “lol at you” or even “Massive LOLZ” to posters who have a different view to you. This is supposed to be a grown up forum.

This is a very tired response, reflecting a real lack of intellectual curiosity and actual engagement with the issues. You are refusing to recognise how the situation has changed.

That study you reference is from 2018, based on data from the 2016/17 financial year, and makes two key assumptions - that migrants will earn around the average UK earnings over the course of their lifetimes, and that they will arrive in the UK around the age of 25.

Those assumptions might have been reasonable back then, but we live in a very different world now. Boris’s reforms to the immigration system, allowing in hundreds of thousands of poorly paid care workers (with no age limit - many are in their forties and fifties), slashing the income requirements for skilled worker visas from £30k to £25,600, and introducing the graduate visa, has transformed our immigration system.

And the reason British people don’t want to work in care homes is that it is extremely difficult and often unpleasant work that is extremely poorly paid. That’s not laziness. If you can make minimum wage working in MacDonalds or working in a care home, why wouldn’t you choose MacDonalds? It’s a far easier job.

If the government was willing to stump up the cash to pay care workers just a little bit more, we would have no recruitment crisis. Instead, we’re undercutting their pay to import middle aged Nigerians, saddling ourselves with their care and health costs in the not so distant future. These poorly paid care workers will be eligible for ILR after 5 years, and at that point can access Universal Credit and social housing - which they’ll definitely be eligible for because they’re so poorly paid!

This is the typical short termist thinking that both Labour and the Tories are guilty of - taking on massive future costs to avoid stumping up just a little bit more cash in the short term.