What's your thoughts on asylum seekers?

[Lynds778]

I'm all for offering asylum to those genuinely in need but I've seen a lot of negative media recently around 'fake' asylum seekers; people pretending to be from war-torn countries etc to gain entry to the country. Also videos of men giving advice for future asylum seekers on where to say you're from so that you can get in.

Also seen a lot of uproar from local communities about asylum seekers behaving anti-socially, most recently hanging around outside a primary school in Deanshanger and it's got me worried.
I'm also wondering why the large majority of asylum seekers are men and there are less women and children?

So, what's your opinion?

Also, this isn't a racist post. I would have the exact same concerns if these were white asylum seekers from Germany for example. The worry is the system is being abused by some and that we are a bit too lax when it comes to documentation and monitoring of asylum seekers.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14058597/Fake-asylum-seekers-conning-way-Britain-telling-Home-Office-war-torn-Eritrea-bragging-thousands-followers-TikTok.html

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14185169/amp/Four-asylum-seekers-costing-taxpayer-estimated-160-000-year-living-575-000-luxury-home-accused-faking-Afghan-nationalities-UK.html

Slavery, ethnic cleansing, genocide, mass murder, torture and civil war are the legacy of colonisation.

This really isn't true, you know. It will remain untrue no matter how many people confidently assert it on tiktok.

There's a reason we no longer share Earth with Neanderthal humans, for instance. Yes, many humans have some residual DNA, so there was some inbreeding, but mostly we wiped them out.

Slaves built the pyramids.

Plenty of evidence of torture as an instrument of social control that pre-dates colonialism, or has nothing to do with it, eg the Spanish Inquisition, and it was standard in England at the time as well.

Civil war, I mean there have been plenty of civil wars in England alone that pre-date colonialism.

There's a current trend of thinking white Western cultures are the root of all evil but it's nonsense. It's actually a deeply racist way of thinking, assuming that non-Western cultures are childlike beings with no agency of their own.

I was talking about the effects of colonisation and you seem to be trying to be clever. For example, you're saying that slavery existed before the British Empire as though that somehow negates it. Two things can exist at the same time 1. Slavery existed before the British Empire 2. Slavery was industrialised during the British Empire.

Scholars have a very clear understanding of what ethnic cleansing is and it's defined under international law. International law is a modern invention but that doesn't negate the fact that ethnic cleansing took place before the law

Genocide existed before the Holocaust, there wasn't an international law defining it until afterwards. That doesn't mean it didn't exist. If you don't think the Rwandan genocide wasn't caused by colonisation, I don't know what to tell you. Ignorance is bliss I guess.

Now you're saying that every single conflict in history must be the result of colonisation...

I was talking about the effects of colonisation and you seem to be trying to be clever. For example, you're saying that slavery existed before the British Empire as though that somehow negates it. Two things can exist at the same time 1. Slavery existed before the British Empire 2. Slavery was industrialised during the British Empire.

Slavery was also ended by Britain. Took the UK till I think 2014 to pay off that particular bill.

It's a really tough topic I think. As a decent person I would say we should welcome asylum seekers & help them feel safe in our country. I think the issues stem from the amount it costs us, as a country & the decline in the general standard of living in the UK. If everyone is already struggling & fighting over resources I.e. social housing, NHS appointments then it can be easy to point fingers at people arriving & being given access to these things. This is a problem caused by the government & not by the individuals arriving. Certainly in my area social housing wait lists are decades long & I can well imagine being put out if I'm working, contributing to the system and then a family arrives and is given a full health check & a nice home. On the flip side, if I had to flee to safety with my children I would move heaven & earth to do so. I would like for people arriving to be integrated into society better, to be provided with jobs/training & not to be put with other people newly arrived & left to thier own devices all day- preventing them from mixing outwith their own groups.

I guess that means it's ok. The Brits didn't pay reparations to the victims though, just the owners.

So are you saying that the British should not have banned Sati and infanticide?

I gather you aren't a supporter of women's rights then?

I guess that means it's ok. The Brits didn't pay reparations to the victims though, just the owners.

Yes, it was the bank bailout of its day in that regard.

@username299 The Brits didn't pay reparations to the victims though, just the owners.

They set the slaves free, and started a movement in the western world that other countries followed. Do you not agree with that?

The counterfactual is "what if the British hadn't set foot in that country" and in very many places, the answer isn't "everyone was living in the garden of Eden and everything was wonderful".

Fair to discuss specific policies of British colonial administration in specific places and time periods (it varied quite a bit!) with respect to the prevailing conditions when the British arrived but this broad-brush "colonialism is the root of all evil" argument is tedious.

@Dontletthebedbugsbite2

I can well imagine being put out if I'm working, contributing to the system and then a family arrives and is given a full health check & a nice home.

This does not happen. Accommodation given to asylum seekers in temporary in nature, often a room in a hotel or some other communal type situation.

They are not getting houses or homes. They have no security of tenure and can and are moved around with little notice.

@User32459 I was talking about the effects of colonisation and you seem to be trying to be clever.

No, I'm engaging the discussion you started.

So I repeat - "Civil War - I am curious to know who were the 'Colonisers' during the English Civil War, the American Civil War, the Finnish Civil War, Russian Civil War, Greek Civil war etc etc ?"

@User32459 "Now you're saying that every single conflict in history must be the result of colonisation..."

Where did I say that?🤔

loads of posters are dog whistling trans stuff into any old argument these days - I think they genuinely believe that people will see it and think, ‘ah! This poster is anti-trans so they must also be sensible and right about any other topic they discuss’.

I mean, I guess it worked for some of the more abhorrent politicians, so might work here?

You're being a bit ridiculous. We don't need to have invented it, to have, in some cases, caused it.

a) I don't agree and b) I really don't get your point.

It was said, quite clearly, that one of the the legacies of colonisation was Civil War.

It would be nice if the poster that said that could give some examples of this, as I was as a loss to find any.

Do you think they are forever in temporary accommodation years after moving here? The main reason house prices and rent are overinflated is because our population is increasing at an unnatural rate due to uncontrolled immigration. Being in a hotel or something similar is the initial accommodation before they are allocated housing.

Some roads and other basics like medicine, hygiene, laws yeah...

Yes initially that is the case, but obviously people who are living here long term need to be housed and are often placed ahead of people already waiting, in inadequate housing themselves. I have witnessed this first hand, and I absolutely understand why it's necessary but the fact is - we are spending a lot as a country to educate, house and provide healthcare for people who are not being given adequate support to enable them to work & pay into the system. Just to reiterate my earlier point, the people arriving are NOT at fault for any of this, the government are.

Ah, so we left behind the medicine, sanitation systems (if they ever existed) and legal system did we? We certainly didn't impose our version, displacing the existing alternatives, then dismantle both when we left did we?

Why are you saying 'we' like anyone who existed today did any of this? These are actions of people living in history, it's absurd to apply it to today. Yes, these places would have overall been worse off without the influence of early globalisation. You could argue it'd be nicer to die from an infection after having 14 kids since you were married off at 12, but personally I'd take the basic rights and antibiotics. It might shock you to learn that all cultures have done awful things in the past and exploited others, some just happened to be better at it.

Who is this we? It's certainly not myself and my children.

Who is this we? It's certainly not myself and my children.

Sins of the fathers.

And those things have happened across the globe without colonisation. Whatever we consider to be the rights or wrongs of immigration, and although there may be plenty of open spaces, our infrastructure is feeling the strain of our increased population.

Surely there is an issue about the amount of money paid to keep anyone arriving in the UK irregularly and claiming to be an asylum seeker. A, because of the length of time it takes to deal with the cases and B, to hear the appeals. Some legal firms are really making a killing! A quick turnaround would reduce the costs and help those who are genuine refugees get status sooner. They would then be entitled to work and contribute.

Work needs to be done also around integration, equality for women is far better now than when I was young, sixty, fifty or even forty years ago, and I don’t want to see a reverse. Unless the politicians listen to those most affected by the huge cultural changes to some of our society, usually in poorer areas, I believe we’ll follow other countries and see a much greater shift to the right.

They only move out of temporary accommodation after receiving Refugee status and are given leave to stay, Then they will take their place in line like anyone else if they require council housing.

they make up a tiny part of the immigration numbers: 7% I think in the UK. So not the cause of your over inflated rent or house prices.

I completely understand that you aren’t giving out about people: but it’s a myth that they get to jump a social housing waiting list:

Once they are approved and received refugeee status, they can apply for social housing. They come under the same needs based points system as everyone else (it’s published so you can look it up) Neither your ethnicity nor your refugee status gives you extra points for housing.